Dead & Co. - Fall Tour 2017

[Dr. Barry]

19 minutes ago, John A said:

No kidding.  First I've heard that conclusion of 9-18-90 TLMD discussed in the pejorative.  To this set of ears it's an unscripted slice of paradise. 

 

Well, the TLMD was nice. The Vince on it did hurt. Maybe because I was focusing on it as some sort of self flagellation. It hurts me to say it, kills me even, but the Jerry "yelping" at the end  made me understand what David Berkowitz heard when he was tormented by his neighbors dog thus becoming the Son of Sam. 

 

This is one of those super rare instances that anything Jerry did has left me less than happy, amazed, in awe, appreciative... I do appreciate the intent of it and the uniqueness, but if that was a "tribute" to Brent I imagine he was rolling over in his grave. And Vince should have layed low on the circus organ grinder sound. 

 

I will now repent for even having these thoughts. 

 

Dr. B

 

 

[DesertDead]

Very well said, Doc.

 

I think we were both quite fair in trying to articulate our opinion.  (Invoke Big Lebowski and his thoughts on opinions here, "Man".)

 

I trust that everyone reading will give us the benefit of the doubt about our humble thoughts.  We can't all always agree on every topic discussed, I don't think.   

 

And no blasphemy intended, I'm quite sure.

[Island Bro]

I agree with John,,,I finally sat down and listened to it and I appreciate the emotion behind it. And it sure sounds like the crowd did, too,,the way they responded when Jerry started to belt it out at the end. For me it's not always about the actual sound of the voice in those moments,,but more about the emotion behind it which is what I'm trying to connect with while listening to Jerry sing a song such as TLMD. 

 

I tend to dig it when any of the GD members would throw their emotion out and hang it on the wind in an exposed or perhaps vulnerable way...kind of rare and special moments.

[Dr. Barry]

17 minutes ago, Island Bro said:

I agree with John,,,I finally sat down and listened to it and I appreciate the emotion behind it. And it sure sounds like the crowd did, too,,the way they responded when Jerry started to belt it out at the end. For me it's not always about the actual sound of the voice in those moments,,but more about the emotion behind it which is what I'm trying to connect with while listening to Jerry sing a song such as TLMD. 

 

I tend to dig it when any of the GD members would throw their emotion out and hang it on the wind in an exposed or perhaps vulnerable way...kind of rare and special moments.

 

I agree with all of what you're saying! If I was there I would have had to pick my jaw up from the ground. DD and I love Jerry (I think I can speak for DD but I never call Jerry "Jerome"). The emotion is spine chilling. And I wouldn't change a thing about it either. I just wish I didn't want to speak with dogs...

 

I am not a Grateful Dead "critic". Never was. I love/loved virtually everything. I say virtually because I need to reserve the right to never hear Samba or Wave again. Or the Donna shriek on PITB. Thank goodness for Lisa. To be able to reimagine some difficult passages and turn them into golden highlights is her gift to all of us and the music she inherited. 

 

Dr. B

[Ammagamalin Crew]

You're right about people hoarding tapes. When I started wanting more music, in order to get the 10/20/84 Syracuse show (that I had attended)I had to loan my tape deck a person for two weeks before he gave it back with copies of the show. I was kinda frustrated; however, they were clean, crisp audience tapes of the show I was at, so I was happy. Wasn't until Red Rocks 1985 that I started meeting tapers and getting into some good, kind sources. The west always seemed to have a unique kindness. There used to be these 30 minute bootleg albums that went for about $20-40.00 and you didn't know what kind of quality you were getting. NYE was usually broadcasted on public radio here in cincy. We started getting our own equipment in the fall of 1986 when Jerry came back with some JGB shows. Got thrown out of Red Rocks during Terrapin in 1987 for FOB. A central library is what I used to think of back in the days when we all had to have copies of every show. Maxell and TDK made some serious capital, when all we really needed was one copy of each show that everyone have access to

[Dr. Barry]

Remember buying cases of Maxell XL2's? TDK SA's? Debates over which were better? People who used TDK D's and ruined it for everyone down the

line?

 

Debates over Dolby or no Dolby?

 

Decorated cassette list covers?

 

Printed "collection" lists with self certified quality of each recording?

 

And yes, the seeking out of elusive sources of large collections. Finding them. Usually very eccentric types, especially those on Long Island and Manhattan. Some of these guys were whispered legends that you sought out but never found, protected by layers of mystery. Sometimes only allowing you to trade "if" you had something they didn't have, and then only one for one. Or letting you tape but only a few. Or only on their equipment and in front of them, tapes couldn't leave the premises. Or not allowed access to those "special" tapes. Or even (shudder) those that would put a flaw on a tape so that every generation beyond theirs was flawed and they would hold the "golden" one. 

 

I never imagined the easy access we have now. Free. Exhaustive. Amazing. So great. So easy to take for granted. It wasn't that long ago that the dark ages mentioned above were the norm. One good thing about those dark days is that it created community. Serious deadheads had a "crew". A trusted core to openly trade and share tapes with. It was commonplace for someone in your crew to spread the news that they had a new soundboard! And we all got excited. And we all made copies. And your crew never hoarded. Always shared. And when you opened your collection to a newbie without restriction you had a friend for life. 

 

In the days of "tape lists" there were 2 types of collections. One was that of smaller but high quality collections. Those collections usually had ratites and old recordings of lesser sound quality but historical importanceas well as soundboards and great sounding audiences. These collections were coveted. 

 

The other type of collection was from someone with a huge list 20 pages or more. Hundreds of shows. Back then a tape list was measured in "hours" of music. People would boast of how many hours they had in their collections. These lists had no concern for sound quality, only quantity. These were hard to deal with. Hard to separate the trash from the jewels. 

 

Of course there was the "issue" of how people would rate the tapes in their collections. Someone would give a tape an "A+" and upon listening you would realize it was a hissy "C". You hated to waste a cassette. They were expensive back then. We blew our cash on cases of tapes. And there was a stigma about taping over a tape that was already used. It was felt that it hurt the quality. There were beliefs and rituals. Customs. 

 

Remember the tapers? The ways they would sometimes scheme to get in the earliest and get the "best" spot? The wheelchair ploy where decks and microphones and batteries were stashed in the chair and on the "disabled" persons body in a way that would avoid a search? The hollowed out crutches? The lines outside venues where tapers had a special waiting area to enter? They were let in first. They would jockey for position and run!

 

Remember the taping section? The absolute seriousness in that space? The not so subtle maintenance of security lest rogue talkers or dancers or other disrupters disturb the seriousness of the recording endeavors. Thank goodness for those tapers. I mean it. 

 

Those were the days...

 

Dr. B

[Island Bro]

Yes they were...

Enjoying the reminiscing of the days of tapes. 

 

Also remembering how challenging it was to decide on which tapes to bring on a road trip,,,and the amount of space we were willing to alot for that in the vehicle...!

 

i never really experienced hoarders...I was always inspired how willing to share people seemed to be...it was like,,,"yeah, I'll tape that '74 for you but I gotta make you this 'bitchin '78 while I'm at it..." 

But it was definitely them doing the taping on their equipment, not letting the tape out, and me providing the blank tapes. 

 

This conversation reminds me of a guy who I used to know who had moved to Santa Cruz and the house he was living in caught on fire and was beginning to burn. As he described it, he immediately started running in and out of the house hauling cases and cases of his tape collection to safety and THEN got around to getting out some of his other personal items, etc....priorities!!😱

 

[BillK522]

Thank you for calling the Grateful Dead West Coast Hotline

This is a new message as of September 20.

 

I was always partial to Golden Road for my setlists.

 

Praise DSO

[John A]

Before we put the MSG Lay Me Down to rest...Barry, I hear and respect everything you say about opinions, subjective impressions, etc.  And I'm even open to the line of thought that Jerry's flourishes generally this night weren't to your taste.  But the concept that any hardcore, discerning Dead Head doesn't have their brain blown open by the single line "I want you to lay me down" seems shocking.  If you'll indulge me (DesertDead as well), please take a listen to the vocal flourishes at the end of He's Gone from 9-16-87.  If that doesn't rock your boat I submit you just aren't fans of Jerry deviating from the script with his vocals. (The script, of course, mandating the upmost emotion possible when lyrics call for them.)  As a solid general rule, anytime Jerry embellishes with a "well", an "ooh", or a "lord" at the start of a line I'm down with it big time. 

 

All that said, I've decided that no Lay Me Down with Vince can possibly be anointed King (or would Lay Me Down more appropriately be Queen?).  A Brent version is likely the candidate for that. The great thing about the '88 Hampton, mentioned up thread,  is that besides being a 5 year bust out it came in a wave of unusual pairing and transitions.  Thin Man bust out > Cumberland > Uncle > Lay Me Down > Let It Grow.  Damn. When I joined the tour in the Meadowlands people were buzzing about those Hampton shows.

 

Also Barry, I love the discussion about tape trading back in the day.  As a taper, I resembled most of what you say, although I drew the line short of sneaking in with the handicapped!  If you couldn't trust an "A" rating on a tape list, than that wasn't anybody you wanted to trade with. Sure enough those lists were out there!  And if you think cassette costs added up, a 120 min DAT tape at the format's onset was $10 if you had a wholesale connection.  That's $20 a show!

[Dr. Barry]

I agree with you. Wholeheartedly. I was blown away by the emotion of Jerry on the TLMD at MSG. I was. I am one of those who get chills whenever he deviated from the script. Insight into his soul and the moment he was feeling. I was just saying that this was one of those moments where the sound of his voice didn't "feel" beautiful to my ear. And there are very few of those moments. But the sentiment and the emotion can't be questioned. The majesty of that moment is remarkable to hear. No doubt. 

 

And i I will queue up 9/16/87 for my morning drive for sure. I am a Jerry devotee. Dead to the core. I was just separating the way his voice sounded to me in this instance from the importance and specialness of the sentiment he was so clearly emoting. I also get goose bumps from every ooh and ahh he ever sang. Every extra word. Any special flourish. I agree. 

 

And while I never taped, I had some friends who did. The Slater brothers. Through them I saw (not by them) the wheelchair maneuver. It was pretty shocking. It was funny in a twisted way to watch the wheelchair get rolled in and once past the doors have the occupant sprint up and run to lock down their space and set up their rigs. I'm sure this wasn't the norm. I think this was done in venues that were restrictive on bringing in equipment or having taping areas that were somehow not desirable by this sub group of tapers. I did see it though, enough that it made an impression on me. But everything made an impression on me in those days...

[gr8fulpair]

Love this type discussion among the old guys. I have one of those 128 tape suitcases with stickers all over the outside and all 128 have decorated sleeves.  It is beautiful to me on occasion to just open it and gaze at it. Remembering what circumstances I got each one, who gave it to me, where, when. It's in my garage. Haven't listened to those tapes in 10 yrs or more. I'm not saving that music, I'm saving those memories. I will pass that suitcase along to my son. It is a part of me. It went everywhere with me in my formative years. I didn't have a lot of fancy shit to show off, but I did have my suitcase. I took a lot of pride in it. Occasionally rearrange by date or geography. When people would talk to me about a show I had on tape I would instantly think about the cassette sleeve. My hobby for a while was to burn one and spend a few hours decorating cassette sleeves. When you do that you have an investment in that show. The way you wrote out "China Cat >> Rider" all curly que. drawing dancing turtles on either side of "Terrapin". 

[gr8fulpair]

I really loved making tapes with the decorated sleeves to give to friends. A lasting gift. I wanted them to think of me when they listened to that tape. 

[Dr. Barry]

52 minutes ago, gr8fulpair said:

Love this type discussion among the old guys. I have one of those 128 tape suitcases with stickers all over the outside and all 128 have decorated sleeves.  It is beautiful to me on occasion to just open it and gaze at it. Remembering what circumstances I got each one, who gave it to me, where, when. It's in my garage. Haven't listened to those tapes in 10 yrs or more. I'm not saving that music, I'm saving those memories. I will pass that suitcase along to my son. It is a part of me. It went everywhere with me in my formative years. I didn't have a lot of fancy shit to show off, but I did have my suitcase. I took a lot of pride in it. Occasionally rearrange by date or geography. When people would talk to me about a show I had on tape I would instantly think about the cassette sleeve. My hobby for a while was to burn one and spend a few hours decorating cassette sleeves. When you do that you have an investment in that show. The way you wrote out "China Cat >> Rider" all curly que. drawing dancing turtles on either side of "Terrapin". 

 

I had that same suitcase. 128 tapes. Tour stickers all over it. All cassette labels hand decorated. My pride and joy. Traveled with me everywhere. You are so right about how once you decorated the cover you were forever invested in that show. I had a set of colored fine point markers that I used to make the covers with. Just for that purpose. 

 

I wish i still had it. I may have it somewhere. I would love to see yours someday. That stuff meant so much. Hard to really describe in the world of nowadays. But you did it justice. Big time. 

 

Also remember the wooden Bolla wine cases that would fit cassettes inside very nicely? The rope handle? The sliding wooden top?

 

B

[jj3down]

17 hours ago, John A said:

As a solid general rule, anytime Jerry embellishes with a "well", an "ooh", or a "lord" at the start of a line I'm down with it big time.

 

I'll add "people" "children" & "I want" to that list...

 

There's a magical "I want" in the Standing on the Moon from 10/5/94 Philly Spectrum... a.k.a. the last great Grateful Dead show.  Okay maybe just very good... great for anything past '92 for sure

[jj3down]

To revisit a comment from earlier in this thread, was it just me or was Vince's involvement with the band completely and totally omitted in the Long Strange Trip movie?  I swear I didn't see a single piece of footage with him in it or even hear his name mentioned.

 

Simply put, Vince just wasn't good a enough musician for the Grateful Dead.  His previous experience was  His presence and playing was only a notch above Joan Biaz joining the band on stage. (projectile vomit emoji here)  And the vibe of the music & scene seemed to be lost on him.  

 

But still, that wasn't Vince's fault!  I mean he did write Samba in the Rain and Way to Go Home (another vomit emoji here), but still he didn't hire himself!  It was like after Jerry died the guys were like, "Okay, we have got to erase all traces of evidence that we even knew this guy."  I just don't get it.  It seems like a very mean thing to do.

 

Jerry was a sucker!  Vince hit him with a sob story that if the GD gig didn't materialize, he would have to become a mule again, flying cocaine back & forth from Columbia or some shit.