Dead & Co. - Fall Tour 2017

[jj3down]

Bob Weir is just as masterful at rhythm guitar as Jerry was at lead.  Rhythm guitar is an art form, and it's especially hard to carve  your own niche out of it exclusively, because it typically is riding a groove in the background of the soundscape.  Most people can barely pick up on it or don't realize they're hearing the rhythm guitar.

 

Bobby's rants as well as his high pitched yelps and screams in LLL, Black Throated Wind, Estimated, Bucket, etc are cherished by me as much as any of Jerry's contributions.  And it seems they can't be duplicated, not even by Bobby himself [these days].

[Tea]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I'm not a huge fan of the Bobby Rockstar thing but his guitar playing is truly unique. Dare I say more unique than Jerry? No comparison necessary but just to say that what Bobby does is an integral part of what the grateful dead is. Put on a pitb from 72/73... Bobby is spinning all kinds of weirdness. It might not be what one's mind focuses on but it helps to frame the music together.

Check out Bobby during the (->) of China -> Rider in 1974.  Not the fusion/jazz of a 73 PITB but clear proof of his eclectic talent.  

[Mojo Hand]

2 hours ago, Mason's Child said:

I think Bobby although not to the same magnitude as Garcia would've been afforded the same respect. If Bobby went first, so would the Grateful Dead.  

 

Interesting scenario.  I think MC is correct.  If Bobby went first, I think the boys would have wrapped it up just as they did when Jerry died.  My guess is that if any one of them had passed in 1995 (except for Vince) they would have folded up shop.  They were done, and it seems just "trucking on" to feed the machine.  Recall the scene in summer '95.  It was horrible.......especially the gate crashers showing up everywhere.  I remember the band sent out a letter to the fans asking for better behavior or the entire scene was at risk.  Things were not good.  Anyone else think they may have called it quits, or at least gone on a hiatus, even if Jerry did not die after that tour? 

 

On another note.....psyched to see the Bobby love on this thread.  No doubt the man created his own style.  His style of rhythm guitar is almost unrecognizable to anyone else who played rhythm guitar before him.  That can not be said of many musicians in any genre. 

 

I love the segment in the documentary "the other one" when he figures he has played guitar and sang in front of a live audience more than anyone else in human history (paraphrasing).  Stands to reason, right?

 

Bobby Badass!

[Tom Banjo]

I wasn't around. Maybe a hiatus was coming. I don't think Billy or Mickey leaving the band would have spelled the end of it. I think they would be replaced. This is totally conjecture and not based in any sound fact. 

[PoetryGirl]

23 hours ago, Michael Doc Watson said:

 

I can't be the only one hanging around here that saw Pegpen.  He totally blew me away that night in Piedmont Park...well actually the whole scene that day was awesome...Sprite , Chicago Transit Authority, Bonnie and Dalaney and some Friends, and then the Grateful Dead.

 

Peace and Love,

Doc

 

The Set:   Morning Dew, Mama Tried > High Time > Casey Jones, Dark Star > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Lovelight
An article:http://www.thestripproject.com/a-bus-stops-in-piedmont-park-july-7-1969/

TC was there too. 

[Michael Doc Watson]

3 hours ago, PoetryGirl said:

 

The Set:   Morning Dew, Mama Tried > High Time > Casey Jones, Dark Star > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Lovelight
An article:http://www.thestripproject.com/a-bus-stops-in-piedmont-park-july-7-1969/

TC was there too. 

Good article...it fills in a lot of that day that I can't remember for some smoky reasons...brings back a few images to my mind.

The links at the end of the article took me back to some other places like the "Twelfth Gate" which I occasionally visited and the newspaper, "Great Speckled Bird".... I even found a photo of the Atlanta band for which I was a roadie and sometimes ran the light show," Celestial Voluptuous Banana".   I'll have to dig deeper into that web site.

Peace and Love,

Doc

[jj3down]

I think if any of them died, it would have been used as immediate justification for taking an extended break.  I talked with one guy who was supposedly in the road crew during the last couple years who said at that time who said nobody expected a Fall/Winter '95 or a '96 tour to happen.   A break was inevitable.

 

I think if Bobby or Phil died, they would have ended the GD in a similar way they did for Jerry.  I'm not so sure about Billy, but maybe would have done the same.

 

I think if Mickey died, they would have returned after a couple years.  Same with Vince, if they even announced it.

 

 

[Dr. Barry]

I remember being shocked and sad that when Brent died the band went forward without skipping a beat. 

 

I understand the concept that "the show must go on", but it felt so disrespectful and hurried to me. Especially at that time and in that era where Brent was so big and so much a part of the sound. And not to mention that I loved Brent. His contribution was so big for me. His interaction with Jerry seemed so joyous and real (vice versa Jerry's interaction with him). 

 

And looking back in history (even though I wasn't personally there) the rapid replacement of Keith after his death was maybe similar, albeit I take it that the band was more than ready to let him go anyway.

 

Similarly the death of Pigpen. Maybe a bit different since Keith came on in a transition mode while Pig was still alive (TC as well) and played without Pig when he was ill. There was a foreboding and maybe a preparation for that transition. 

 

Still, it always haunted me and bothered me that the death of Brent felt like a quick change in the lineup. No real mourning period. No tribute to his legacy. No outside appearance of a major death in the family. Of course this was just my outsider feelings. I was only 26 at the time. But it hit me hard and I remember feeling that it felt "cold" how quickly he was "replaced". 

 

Who knows what would have happened if anyone other than Jerry would have passed away? It's clear that Jerry's death was a blow that mandated the end of the Grateful Dead. I guess that the same would have happened if it were Bob. I would guess Phil as well but even that I have my doubts about. Billy and Mickey? I think they would have been replaced. But who knows?

 

Maybe I am just very emotional about death and the big meaning of things. It really hit me. I didn't understand how they could so quickly carry on after Brent. Maybe after some hiatus. But it felt like they didn't skip a beat and again, as a total observer not privy to the real inside story, like a business decision. And that surprised me and it hurt me. And then it was even more stinging with Hornsby and Vince, both of which just never did "it" for me. 

 

Dr. B

[John A]

Barry - recall that Keith was very much alive when he left the band (not always so alive while sitting at the keys sadly).  He didn't pass until summer 1980, well after Brent was already nicely integrated.

 

It did seem like a "show must go on" scenario after Brent's death. The business of being The Dead had long since enveloped everyone.  I think the only shows that were cancelled were the Shoreline run.  (For which I'd waited overnight on Telegraph Ave in front of Tower Records to score orchestra section seats.)  After all, there was a Europe Tour already booked.  I think part of the reason they hired Vince was that Jerry just couldn't deal with the process and made a knee jerk decision.

[PoetryGirl]

Speaking from experiencing a death very close to home when I was 19, sometimes the only thing you know to do is keep going. 

[Dr. Barry]

1 hour ago, John A said:

Barry - recall that Keith was very much alive when he left the band (not always so alive while sitting at the keys sadly).  He didn't pass until summer 1980, well after Brent was already nicely integrated.

 

My bad! That was an amateur mistake on my part. But you're right about not seeming that "alive". I had a friend in college who used to call Keith "web fingers" because he said that his hands moved so slow that spider webs would grow on them. That being said, so much of the earlier Keith was really fantastic and revolutionary in the way he energized and changed the flavor of the band after the Pigpen era. 

[Ammagamalin Crew]

There was a really good interview with Rolling Stone that Jerry did after Brent's death. He really opened up for the first time, as I remember reading it. As mentioned already about "show must go on", Jerry was wanting to take a six month break; however, he said there was more to the GD than him. too many others' lives were dependent on it continuing. The scene was bigger than him and he was going to continue doing his part. I was not a big fan of Vince coming in for the keyboards. Brent's death got my exit started. Still did lots of shows in 1993 though

[PoetryGirl]

Reading Searching for the Sound , Phil says they had to tour after Brent passed to pay the bills.... Brent died after a one last hurrah of coke and H before entering rehab for a DUI

[BillK522]

Feelin' you on the Brent loss Dr. Barry

He brought a tremendous amount of energy and soul to the music

Spring 90 is a double box set for a reason,

the boys were incredibly tight and dialed in at that point

Midi transitions all over the place by Bob and Jerry.

Seeing Vince with his casio tone bank out there replacing

Brent behind his entourage of keyboards in Philly was tough

Deadication

 

Praise DSO

[jj3down]

I agree about Brent and in hindsight I'm sure the remaining members regretted not taking time off.  As you point out Dr B, there was never any indication of any kind of mourning and I've never understood why.  Is anyone aware of any type of announcement coming from the stage when they returned for Fall Tour?  I remember there was one for PigPen, although the PigPen scenario is hard to compare to any other.  He was literally dying on the road.  Keith & Donna decided to leave the band in '78.  Everyone knew when their last show was going to be (was it 1-7-79?).  There was an announcement about it at that last show.  Were there any announcement from the stage after Keith's death?

 

This idea that the band "had" to keep touring is nonsense.  I know that is what they thought at the time, but that was the construct of getting carried away with thought.  We so often look at things and say "I have to do this" and "I couldn't possibly do that".  Limitations created by the mind to protect against and avoid the unknown.

[DesertDead]

No words were ever spoken on stage about Brent's death.  

 

I'm pretty sure the same is true about Keith's.

 

The *statements* for both was everyone waiting for the first time that He's Gone was played after each one's passing.

 

 

As far as continuing to play Fall Tour and Europe 1990, I wasn't in the room, but I'm sure that there was an element of the show must go on, this is what we do and getting on with it will be the best medicine - plus, we've got these 80 people on the payroll and their families let alone a community of Heads who all need the scene to carry on.

 

And keep in mind the reality which is as Phil said in Long, Strange Trip:  if the Dead weren't going to play at any time, Jerry would simply fire up JGB and go play.

 

Agree with you, JJ, about imaginary constraints.  Well said.

[Dr. Barry]

12 minutes ago, DesertDead said:

The *statements* for both was everyone waiting for the first time that He's Gone was played after each one's passing.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trite

[jj3down]

9 minutes ago, DesertDead said:

The *statements* for both was everyone waiting for the first time that He's Gone was played after each one's passing.

 

It's been hypothesized that the Lay Me Down from 9/18/90 was a last farewell to Brent.  I don't think this was ever confirmed officially though.

 

Other than wide stage shots, I don't think Vince appears or is even mentioned once in "The Long Strange Trip."  I wasn't a huge fan of Vince's but his red-headed stepchild treatment after the band's demise was a bit unusual to me.  For goodness sake he killed himself over it.

[John A]

2 hours ago, jj3down said:

it's been hypothesized that the Lay Me Down from 9/18/90 was a last farewell to Brent.  I don't think this was ever confirmed officially though.

 

Interesting hypothesis I'd not heard that. Were it true, than that farewell statement was a hundred times more powerful than anything Jerry could have overtly said on stage! It's tough to find many post-coma Garcia moments any bigger than that version of Lay Me Down...

 

The only thing that WAS said on stage was a brief acknowledgment by Jerry to the tune of "Vince Welnick is on keyboards" after Bird Song during the 9/7 Cleveland show.

[Tea]

Richfield crowd was sure amped for that show!  9/8 gave me more hope than the night before that it might still work despite the gaping hole ...

[ducats]

5 hours ago, jj3down said:

I agree about Brent and in hindsight I'm sure the remaining members regretted not taking time off.  As you point out Dr B, there was never any indication of any kind of mourning and I've never understood why.  Is anyone aware of any type of announcement coming from the stage when they returned for Fall Tour?  I remember there was one for PigPen, although the PigPen scenario is hard to compare to any other.  He was literally dying on the road.  Keith & Donna decided to leave the band in '78.  Everyone knew when their last show was going to be (was it 1-7-79?).  There was an announcement about it at that last show.  Were there any announcement from the stage after Keith's death?

 

This idea that the band "had" to keep touring is nonsense.  I know that is what they thought at the time, but that was the construct of getting carried away with thought.  We so often look at things and say "I have to do this" and "I couldn't possibly do that".  Limitations created by the mind to protect against and avoid the unknown.

one always has a choice

[jj3down]

2 hours ago, John A said:

 

 It's tough to find many post-coma Garcia moments any bigger than that version of Lay Me Down...

 

It's a great version for certain.  It's a simple song, without much room for embellishments - this may be the only version with the energy Jerry puts in at the end.

 

However, do this this early version of So Many Roads from 6-8-92 Richfield Coliseum  a shot

(and forgive me if you're the person originally suggested this track to me at some point on the Now Listening thread)

 

 

1 hour ago, Tea for Texas said:

 

[jj3down]

1 hour ago, Tea for Texas said:

Richfield crowd was sure amped for that show!  9/8 gave me more hope than the night before that it might still work despite the gaping hole ...

I was in the lot for that show.  Being part of the problem. 

[ducats]

for me the Lake Placid TLMD is the one

[PoetryGirl]

Evidently Jerry's guitar and Bobby's guitar styles complemented each other's expression, and to Bobby's credit, he developed a  unique rhythm guitar style that suited Jerry's- that weaves in between Jerry and Phil's interplay, as I understand it. I love Billy's top hat,  such good energy.