Election 2016

[Tom Banjo]

You didn't offend me brother. I know you stubborn and drink leftist kool aid

[Michael Doc Watson]

Sorry if I offended people. ....

No offense taken here, Rudd.   You were just getting too upset for your own good and needed to cool down.   I agree with almost everything you said. Here in north Georgia I see the same type of people you speak of around you.

 

Peace and Love,

Doc

[bs69]

It's all good Rude, dialogue is important. We have to keep in mind that the fringe element on both sides make the most noise and you have to realize that is not the majority. By the way, I'm sure you noticed college hoops started tonight!

[Tom Banjo]

Coach Pop feeling similar to Rude. Guy never says much. His comments kind of surprised me considering he usually doesn't say much.

[Dr. Barry]

All good with me. What we have in common and friendship is most important. Let's just be neighborly around these parts. Hear?

Dr. B

[Island Bro]

Majority rule is a scary thing. Tyranny of the majority needs to be avoided.

I'm not sure I like the electoral college and majority election may work for me but we don't just want majority rule please. The founders new this....

A majority election is what is meant by majority rule in this case and it is a simple, fair way to vote for a president just as every other democracy in the world does.

It does not make sense (at all!) that more of our fellow Americans wanted (by hundreds of thousands of votes) Clinton over Trump and now Trump will be president.

Everybody knows this is ludicrous including Trump himself who, in 2012, said that the electoral college system of choosing a president "is a disaster for a democracy" when it first appeared that Romney might actually have the majority of votes but lose the election to Obama. (Once the final tallies were in Obama did end up with the majority of the votes).

Americans deserve to have the president that the majority of the people voted for, regardless of the political party. Had this election resulted in the opposite outcome with Trump receiving the majority of votes but losing the election, I wonder how he would have responded.

I am hopeful to not have to live through another election affected by the electoral system in this way. It happened in 2000 and now it has happened again. This is a flaw in our system that can be fixed and many state representatives are already working in that direction.

Perhaps even Donald will get behind this change as he has been able to clearly see the flaws in the electoral college system.

[bs69]

There is another way to look at it, Trump won 30 states and Clinton won 20 plus DC. We can't have the few most populous states hold all the power in an election.

[Island Bro]

It's about the actual popular vote in a national election. (Or at least should be)

Extremely narrow margins in a state should not mean that state then gets all the electoral votes allotted to the state. The electoral votes should reflect the narrow margins. The winner take all approach state by state is what is skewing the numbers and leading to unfair (and unintended--by our forefathers) results. The recognition that this needs to be changed lands on both sides of the aisle and amongst all other party supporters as well. It's been discussed for decades but now coming to the surface more intensely.

[ducats]

bs89.  it's that simple and our founding fathers were genius to figure it out so long ago.  I'm surprised this bunch of misfits with such a strong identity doesn't see the fault with majority rule.  that state legislature movement is a joke if u ask me.  u want to live in a state where EVERY citizen can vote one way and then the "electors" cast for somebody else. no thank you.

[SHANNON]

Sorry if I offended people. This was the worst political season in many of our lives with so much hatred. I think this whole thing may have upset me more than I realized. I need to quit reading online news. I've also scoured too many sites like Breitbart and the commebts represent the worst of America. So much hatred and vitriol and violent talk that I've taken too much to heart. I read all the racist hate speech on those sites and I've projected too much. too many are celebrating this election as the beginning of a white supremacy agenda which I know will not be the reality. I'm also in an area where I see the deplorable people too often. People are open with their racism in rural KY. They see this as a victory of whites over other races. The hate for obama here was mostly race based. I'm sorry for any comments that any of you thought were directed at any of you. They weren't.

You cant fill a thread with countless demeaning posts and then turn around and apologize once you realize you haven't changed any minds. Or are you preparing to run for office yourself one day? 

[Island Bro]

I'd vote for Rude!!

Or anyone else on these boards, for that matter

[Tom Banjo]

Okay so upon further review. Ducats is right the issues for the electoral college don't have anything to do with tyranny of the majority. They are 2 fold. First the founders didn't trust the people. Even when only land owning white males could vote they were still concerned with a demigogue coming to power. Think hitler. It gives them one last chance to reject the vote of the people by wiser heads. Maybe that applies here although I don't see them not voting as the delegates did. Trumps plans may concern someone on that level.

By the way, I may not be entirely opposed to requiring voters show some basic knowledge about those they are voting for and against in order to vote. Yes I know these tests would be manipulated to block groups from voting but if done right could ensure people voting on the issues and not simply along party lines or for whatever reason they have.

The 2nd reason stands today. The electoral college disproportionately favors the small states. This allows for the small states to have greater power and sway in elections. This concession was and may still be necessary to get smaller states to join the union which at that time pre civil war was considered a choice and should still be today. In order to get Delaware at the table or the Dakatos they may require this system to avoid the larger states dictating the president to the smaller states. Delaware didnt just want Virginian presidents. The interests of states can vary greatly and in sure today Kansas doesn't want New York and California deciding the president.

By the way I'm not defending this system just seeking to understand it and see how it isn't with out any merit at all.

[Tom Banjo]

Shannon. Rude knows many of us. We were listening to him vent and sharing thoughts. He wasn't trying to change our mind and I hope he knows no apology necessary. I don't see eye to eye with rude on everything but I know he's my brother and has my back.

[SHANNON]

You know me Rick, Shawn, JJs friend. You should go to law school and become a defense attorney, I think you may be good at it! See you on down the road!

[Tom Banjo]

Didn't know that was you buddy.

[Michael Doc Watson]

Who wants a position...

 

President…Rude

 

VP…MC

 

Secretary of State…  Island Bro

 

Department of the Treasury…
 

Surgeon General…  Dr Barry

 

Department of Defense

Attorney General… Chuck V

Department of the Interior…Bs69

 Department of Agriculture

 Department of Commerce…Comesatime
 

Department of Labor
 

Department of Health and Human Services… Poetry Girl
 
Department of Housing and Urban Development…Brian

 Department of Transportation…Tea
 

Department of Energy

Department of Education….  Teacher Matt

 

Department of Veterans Affairs

Department of Homeland Security…Manda Panda

White House Chief of Staff

Environmental Protection Agency

Office of Management & Budget

United States Trade Representative

United States Mission to the United Nations

Council of Economic Advisers

Small Business Administration

Shaman and Old Hippy… Doc Watson

[Tom Banjo]

It's appears with direct vote you allow super majorities in a few states dictate the outcome. Thus politicians would only campaign these states and only take into account the wants of people in these states.

Michael Moore warned the democrats. Hilary was essentially doing just this. She didn't really seem to want to be president with how actively she campaigned. She definitely ignore the heartland northern midwest. Tried to piggyback on Obama votes. Moore interviewed people in the Midwest the heartland and could sense that the people there didn't feel much concern from Hilary for their needs and their wants.

I can see merit in the system if I look hard enough. Direct vote may still make more sense.

[bs69]

It's not necessarily campaigning to the most populated states, it would be the cities against rural areas. Farmers and ranchers would be totally ignored.

[Dr. Barry]

The electoral college is a tough one. Gut feeling is that it isn't fair and get rid of it. Second thoughts after reading about it is maybe it makes sense. It doesn't bother me that much though, there are bigger issues that need reform.

For example, the rule in the US Senate regarding Filibuster and Cloture. This doesn't exist in the House of Representatives. See the article below it explains it well;

http://www.thisnation.com/question/037.html

I agree that certain votes can require more than a simple majority. Some things should be more difficult than a simple majority. Changing the constitution comes to mind...but any regular motion should not be held hostage to the Filibuster/cloture rules. It feels like a perversion of the deliberative system and not the intention of the way citizens trust that their elected leaders should legislate.

If it was done away with both parties would lose that tool to disturb the process. It would remove a weapon that a minority party has in the senate to wield influence that is beyond their numbers. It is a perversion of the rules but it is legal. Both parties will lose the power of the Filibuster because each will be a minority party at some point.

Things like the Filibuster and attaching riders to critical bills and holding them hostage are the stuff that make the citizenry feel the system is not fair. If we recognize that an elected majority in the Senate (and the House) is the voice of the people, it should be respected as such and arcane twists in the nuances of the rules shouldn't be allowed to manipulate the voices of our elected leaders.

And term limits for sure. And no lobbying after holding office. And limit special interest lobbying to our elected leaders while in office. These things would make a big difference regardless of what party you are.

Dr. B

[Tom Banjo]

I like term limits.

[Dr. Barry]

I would go a little further and while I am kidding, I'm kind of not...

Term limits.

And just for one or two election cycles do not re-elect any incumbents. Part of the problem already.

And for one or two elections do not elect any lawyers or professional politicians. Only regular people.

Dr. B

[Tom Banjo]

Term limits kind of eliminates professional politicians. I can't agree we exclude lawyers although I'd love to see more of the common man. We need campaign finance reform. Limit spending for each candidate require candidates to use all of their donation money. Clintons have gotten rich running charities and campaigns. It's kind of sick.

[Tom Banjo]

No VP. Use power to manipulate women for sex. Take bribes whenever.

[bs69]

As Secretary of the Interior I would like to promote our National Parks. To further this effort, I will be promoting the "DSO in the Parks" summer tour of outdoor shows. Each location will host shows Thursday through Saturday nights with plenty of camping (Wednesday night sound checks/Terrapin nation shows possible). Here is the proposed schedule:

1st leg

Memorial Day weekend: Grand Canyon

week 2: Zion

week 3: Yosemite

week 4: Yellowstone

week 5: Denali (summer solstice)

2nd leg

July 4: Minuteman

week 2: Gettysburg

week 3: Smoky Mountain

week 4: Mammoth Cave

week 5: Mt. Rushmore

3rd leg

week 1: Big Bend

week 2: Hot Springs

Labor day weekend: Everglades

[Tom Banjo]

In college junior year, DcFrank and I lived in an apartment at the corner of O and Wisconsin in DC.  I got a ton of stories from that apartment.  One is pretty relevant here.  

 

We lived next door to racist redneck crackhead for a minute.  And I mean that in the kindest way but you could smell the crack in the hall.  He frequently used the word ****** and I'm pretty sure he had a confederate flag in his apartment.  Despite these pretty serious character flaws, we ended up hanging a few times.  He wasn't mean or nasty to me and we enjoyed smoking bowls in the late hour mornings as we were coming down from our different rides.  One particular night, DCFrank brings back a 6 foot 3 African American buddy from work, Hakeem.  This dude is big.  Probably 220.  I should mention the racist is an out of shape middle aged white guy.  5 10 195.  The neighbor calls Hakeen a ****** to his face.  I mean it was bad.  I was really concerned that the situation was going to get really bad.  I mean Hakeem could kill this dude in my apartment right now and faced with the type of hatred bigotry and straight up disrespect, I wouldn't have held it against him if he knocked him out.  I was shocked that the racist would talk like this directly to a black man, especially one much larger.  

 

The craziest thing happened.  Hakeem said I think we need to hug this out.  The guys face and body language softened.  They embraced.  I mean a genuine hug.  We drank beer and smoked bowls for a few hours after that.  I'm not saying my neighbor stopped using the N word after that.  That he stopped being racist but I very much feel that moment touched him.  I feel that very moment helped combat the hate he held in his heart when confronted with genuine love.  We need more of this.  We need to seek to understand.  We do ourselves a disservice when we respond to their hatred with more hatred and intolerance.  You can't shove your version of the truth down someone's throat but you very much can shine some light and show them another way.  They may see for themselves one day that your way was better.

 

Yes, regardless of the election results, I am adamant that racism is wrong.  By better way, I mean tolerance understanding compassion love.  You know the opposite of racism. I believe the majority of Americans believe this even if they fight some prejudice of their own.  I very much believe that most people believe we should judge people based on the content of their character and the merit of their actions.  

 

I think Doc already brought it up...

 

We can all be together forever and ever....

 

Note I am sorry if the use of N word offended you.  I had an English teacher that insisted at Georgetown that for proper context in a story like this that you should use the vernacular of the person your talking about.  The word offends me too.