Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 16, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 it's a given that stricter gun laws won't stop guns from getting into the wrong hands, but no one can possibly argue that fewer guns--registered guns in homes, unregistered guns on the streets, wherever--won't mean less harm caused by guns. also not up for debate: in places with more firearms, there are more homicides. facts, not big government advertising. i understand that we're never going to be able to get rid of legal guns in this country, so i'll take the assault weapon ban and mandated extensive background checks. but i think rick's younger version is right on when it comes to legality: the second amendment has nothing to do with this conversation--the one we're having in 2013. and hey, if we existed in a country where we still needed to be concerned with maintaining private militia, maybe i'd even want a musket for myself. There have been documented cases of the decline in legal gun ownership leading to increases in crime. Cities in the US have at times done weapon buy back programs in rougher neighborhoods. This gave incentive to low income families and many elderly to turn in their firearms for the cash. This led to an increase in crime (your right; maybe not gun deaths) as the elderly and good people made themselves defenseless against intruders. I think most important would be the evidence of tyranny and genocide that have occurred after forceable disarmament should outweigh those kids we lost in CT. 6 million Jews and that is one historical instance. There are others. I find the 2nd amendment still very relevant today. Our military has fired on us before and the police currently bash protester skulls at ever opportunity. We need to be able to protect and defend ourselves as much today as we did yesterday, 100 years ago, or 1,000 years ago. It is unfortunate that we live in such a world. The solution doesn't lie with more or less guns; it simply involves a complete about face in the cultural of the US and the one we try to push through out the world. We base our system on competition and not cooperation. Our kids are raised not to feel. A boy gets ridiculed a homo for hugging another boy. It is a cultural issue and unfortunately, the US and its allies currently dominate much of the world's cultural. When we start a new age of love and end the age of greed, we can all put our guns away. As long as we're in a competition, I need to protect myself from those who give up on the rat race and take stuff from others (criminals) and the enforcers of those who rig the rules (police working for politicians and financiers). Just so you know. I don't own a firearm and give out free hugs and try to share love. Love will overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Mango Posted March 16, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Like rick said, we need a cultural change not law changes. Prohibiting guns wont stop people from getting them. It is everyone's personal responsibility to choose not to be violent. I personally believe in karma and reincarnation. We are all coming back, over and over again. There is no need to have such weapons to "defend" oneself. Let the universe sort it out- if someone wants to kill they will pay for it in their own way. People are so insecure and fearful- that is what causes people to commit such acts. We should focus not on restricting rights but on promoting the right ideas. Like I always tell people about diet changes or any life changes they want to make, don't focus on what NOT to do, focus on what TO do. Let's one by one start making the right choices and stop worrying about some highly unlikely scenario of someone breaking into your house and you saving the day with a gun. THAT is fear. Don't quote the 1% scenario to make your point. You can't change others, you can only change yourself. Make a positive difference by being a positive person. Clearly a massive paradigm shift is in order- how we go about this, i'm not entirely sure. Change happens slowly over time, through generations. Just do your part. First and foremost- Love yourself. Don't worry about what MIGHT happen to you. Focus on crafting a life that you feel makes a positive difference in the world. Tune yourself to the frequency of the Earth, be one with all, and all will be well. And while you're at it, EAT MORE VEGETABLES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP GoingBackTo Where.... Posted March 16, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I appreciate self protection!! Its afforded to us through the US Constitiution. What most people forget!! Rights to bare firearms were embedded in our highest legal document, not for protections against one's neighboor, but from the tyrancial and historically hunger crazy governement. Remember, the guns are here to KILL the Government, and the leaders in it, when at a time, the ruled feel they are no longer being ruled for their best interest. That means, the reason why we have guns is so it would not be as hard to take down an unjust government. Makes you wonder why the highest leaders in the land want to restrict firearms from the most civil of civil society, and why public schools are a petri dish for the ignorant!!!!! This great country was forged out of viloence and blood. Its westward expansion, manifest destiny----plowed through to the Pacific with Calvary and Colt!! I find it amusing that every step of our country's greatness, from Reveloution, to Westward expansion, to basically winning 2WWars and one Cold War, was all predicated on the death and demise of the other side, glorified in Westerns with more anti heros than not, and a huge empasis on action and thriller with in our own media. So much glorification, until some idiot kills some innocent, and than all the above means nothing, and does not matter, cause we got to save the kids. Currently we have a President that says its ok for the US government to kill American Citizens with out due process---domestic and abroad, but we bring Osama's son into New York and offer him due process rights!! And some think I should not own a handgun to protect myself from these scary fucks in our government. Your right---I should have RPG's and mortar rounds:}!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 the thing is , only good people would put the guns away , not the bad ,,,,,,, and the bad are vicious . i guess ur saying Lanza's mom was a bad lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Hey Ducats... I didn't shoot those kids up... why should I be punished for someone elses actions?? Maybe the next time some kills a bus load full of kids because they were drunk we should go back to prohibition.. Mike, you are dead on my friend.... nobody said u did and nobody's trying to punish you. Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I agree with Herdy 100% that guns are simply a tool for people to use. The problem will not be solved by making more laws restricting guns. It will be solved, though not completely, by stricter punishments and actual ENFORCEMENT of the laws. The strict enforcement is what is lacking right now. However........ I simply cannot get over the fact that 85% of all CHILDREN who die from a gun, die in the United States of America. To me, that is a big, big problem and I don't know how you stop that...... not a new law. several amendments were short sighted - like the (#9?) income tax one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Like rick said, we need a cultural change not law changes. Prohibiting guns wont stop people from getting them. It is everyone's personal responsibility to choose not to be violent. I personally believe in karma and reincarnation. We are all coming back, over and over again. There is no need to have such weapons to "defend" oneself. Let the universe sort it out- if someone wants to kill they will pay for it in their own way. People are so insecure and fearful- that is what causes people to commit such acts. We should focus not on restricting rights but on promoting the right ideas. Like I always tell people about diet changes or any life changes they want to make, don't focus on what NOT to do, focus on what TO do. Let's one by one start making the right choices and stop worrying about some highly unlikely scenario of someone breaking into your house and you saving the day with a gun. THAT is fear. Don't quote the 1% scenario to make your point. You can't change others, you can only change yourself. Make a positive difference by being a positive person. Clearly a massive paradigm shift is in order- how we go about this, i'm not entirely sure. Change happens slowly over time, through generations. Just do your part. First and foremost- Love yourself. Don't worry about what MIGHT happen to you. Focus on crafting a life that you feel makes a positive difference in the world. Tune yourself to the frequency of the Earth, be one with all, and all will be well. And while you're at it, EAT MORE VEGETABLES!!! i don't like myself or vegetables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamminOnThe1 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 The part that annoys me is the fact that it seems like this last school shooting has given people a reason to jump on what I like to call a "gun bandwagon" its like its the cool thing to do now and bitch about. It's super lame. And the fact that people are willing to pay outrageous prices for ammo and guns right now just sad. The problem today is not guns, its parents not being responsible and raising their kids the right way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Mango Posted March 16, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Like rick said, we need a cultural change not law changes. Prohibiting guns wont stop people from getting them. It is everyone's personal responsibility to choose not to be violent. I personally believe in karma and reincarnation. We are all coming back, over and over again. There is no need to have such weapons to "defend" oneself. Let the universe sort it out- if someone wants to kill they will pay for it in their own way. People are so insecure and fearful- that is what causes people to commit such acts. We should focus not on restricting rights but on promoting the right ideas. Like I always tell people about diet changes or any life changes they want to make, don't focus on what NOT to do, focus on what TO do. Let's one by one start making the right choices and stop worrying about some highly unlikely scenario of someone breaking into your house and you saving the day with a gun. THAT is fear. Don't quote the 1% scenario to make your point. You can't change others, you can only change yourself. Make a positive difference by being a positive person. Clearly a massive paradigm shift is in order- how we go about this, i'm not entirely sure. Change happens slowly over time, through generations. Just do your part. First and foremost- Love yourself. Don't worry about what MIGHT happen to you. Focus on crafting a life that you feel makes a positive difference in the world. Tune yourself to the frequency of the Earth, be one with all, and all will be well. And while you're at it, EAT MORE VEGETABLES!!! i don't like myself or vegetables ah, there's thy sly one liner I was waiting for. You don't like yourself?? That must suck. And vegetables?? Come on man- doesn't get any more hater than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 16, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 the thing is , only good people would put the guns away , not the bad ,,,,,,, and the bad are vicious . i guess ur saying Lanza's mom was a bad lady to be honest , because I was and still am working on getting past a big sadness in my personal life , I avoided that whole tragedy and know very little about it , I had to google the name Lanza ... I feel for those children and their families , but I'm being very selfish with my tears these days , and I watch very little TV anyway ... I had to turn all of that news coverage off and turn on music ... but if you could get all the honest law abiding registered gun owners to put their guns away , the non law abiding un-registered gun owners would eat us alive , and you know that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board blythalala Posted March 17, 2013 Advisory Board Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 There have been documented cases of the decline in legal gun ownership leading to increases in crime. Cities in the US have at times done weapon buy back programs in rougher neighborhoods. This gave incentive to low income families and many elderly to turn in their firearms for the cash. This led to an increase in crime (your right; maybe not gun deaths) as the elderly and good people made themselves defenseless against intruders. I think most important would be the evidence of tyranny and genocide that have occurred after forceable disarmament should outweigh those kids we lost in CT. 6 million Jews and that is one historical instance. There are others. I find the 2nd amendment still very relevant today. Our military has fired on us before and the police currently bash protester skulls at ever opportunity. We need to be able to protect and defend ourselves as much today as we did yesterday, 100 years ago, or 1,000 years ago. It is unfortunate that we live in such a world. The solution doesn't lie with more or less guns; it simply involves a complete about face in the cultural of the US and the one we try to push through out the world. We base our system on competition and not cooperation. Our kids are raised not to feel. A boy gets ridiculed a homo for hugging another boy. It is a cultural issue and unfortunately, the US and its allies currently dominate much of the world's cultural. When we start a new age of love and end the age of greed, we can all put our guns away. As long as we're in a competition, I need to protect myself from those who give up on the rat race and take stuff from others (criminals) and the enforcers of those who rig the rules (police working for politicians and financiers). Just so you know. I don't own a firearm and give out free hugs and try to share love. Love will overcome. but that's what we're talking about, right? gun deaths? i think--unless you're talking exclusively about petty crime (i.e., non-fatal crimes) that could increase when petty criminals perceive other people to be gunless and therefore defenseless--you'd be quite hard pressed to find hard data that suggests causality between fewer guns and crime increase. you are definitely correct that some of the gun exchange programs haven't done any good. but if you look at the somewhat hefty number that have been implemented over the years, it would be impossible NOT to find cases with unsuccessful results--or even results that appeared to worsen the problem. i say "appeared" because again, those results don't imply causality between fewer guns and more deaths: there are places in which crime rates were going to increase anyway. that will probably always be true. as to the genocide point, i think you're right again. about holocaust germany. and other cases, as you say, of mass genocide. but as with the second amendment, i don't see the relevance to 2013 america. how well would, say, a nebraksa militia fare against the united states army? in the big picture sense, i couldn't agree more that the root of the problem is with our culture. if i had my way, in lalaland, i'd get rid of ALL the guns. but do i think that would make this country a safe and progressive place to live? nope. (safeER, yes.) as much as we may try to deny it, we foster violence. we condone hate. we reward intolerance. that's where the sickness lies. wish i had a good suggestion for how to cure it. in the meantime, i, too will refrain from owning (or even touching) firearms and stick to giving hugs. there's a big one in noho with your name on it whenever you make it back this way, rick--or if i can ever get my behind out to CO. i appreciate the respectful and thoughtful discourse. love IS the way, lala* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP GoingBackTo Where.... Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 i don't see the relevance to 2013 america. how well would, say, a nebraksa militia fare against the united states army? Never underestimate people fighting for what they belive or fighting for their life. How did the US Army do fighting villagers with out shoes in the jungles of SE Asia, or perhaps tribal folks in the poppy valleys of Afganastan? Maybe, some idealistic commoners from some colonies taking on the biggest Empire in the world, and winning!! This day in age is not as strong as one may think. One hit to the electrical grid, and we are all back to before Edison. Walks at night in the city would be a whole different expereince than it is now:} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I know you guys are all focused on a school shooting tragedy , and that is a horrible thing ... I wasn't happy with some of my classmates , I never brought a gun from home to kill them , I beat the shit out of them with my hands , and at times I took a good beating ... you can't gun educate the insane , you can't teach gun safety to the insane ... and , you can always expect the insane to do something bad with weapons that are legally registered and not stored the right way , you can't fix stupid , and there are some stupid people that own guns legally ... and you can't take away the right of good people to bare arms and protect themselves against anything that may require that level of protection ... ban all the assault weapons you want , watch the news and see all the assault weapons being used to commit crime , the bad in society will still have them and be able to obtain them just as easily as they always did ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 maybe , fertilizer , diesel fuel and truck rentals should be banned , also ... a certain nut case proved not so long ago , that you don't need assault weapons to cause a ruckus ... this is my last legitimate post in this thread , the rest will have absolutely no meaning to the thread and will be riddled with sarcasm !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taper Ron Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 This too shall pass! How about them Chiefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 What if all tomorow brings is ashes and glassAnd I can't tell you child, "this too shall pass" oh wait wrong board they don't play that song round here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 the thing is , only good people would put the guns away , not the bad ,,,,,,, and the bad are vicious . i guess ur saying Lanza's mom was a bad lady to be honest , because I was and still am working on getting past a big sadness in my personal life , I avoided that whole tragedy and know very little about it , I had to google the name Lanza ... I feel for those children and their families , but I'm being very selfish with my tears these days , and I watch very little TV anyway ... I had to turn all of that news coverage off and turn on music ... but if you could get all the honest law abiding registered gun owners to put their guns away , the non law abiding un-registered gun owners would eat us alive , and you know that ... as of January 1, 2015 fire arms are illegal (outside of our military ofcourse) in The United States of America. Possesion minimum sentence a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducats Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 There have been documented cases of the decline in legal gun ownership leading to increases in crime. Cities in the US have at times done weapon buy back programs in rougher neighborhoods. This gave incentive to low income families and many elderly to turn in their firearms for the cash. This led to an increase in crime (your right; maybe not gun deaths) as the elderly and good people made themselves defenseless against intruders. I think most important would be the evidence of tyranny and genocide that have occurred after forceable disarmament should outweigh those kids we lost in CT. 6 million Jews and that is one historical instance. There are others. I find the 2nd amendment still very relevant today. Our military has fired on us before and the police currently bash protester skulls at ever opportunity. We need to be able to protect and defend ourselves as much today as we did yesterday, 100 years ago, or 1,000 years ago. It is unfortunate that we live in such a world. The solution doesn't lie with more or less guns; it simply involves a complete about face in the cultural of the US and the one we try to push through out the world. We base our system on competition and not cooperation. Our kids are raised not to feel. A boy gets ridiculed a homo for hugging another boy. It is a cultural issue and unfortunately, the US and its allies currently dominate much of the world's cultural. When we start a new age of love and end the age of greed, we can all put our guns away. As long as we're in a competition, I need to protect myself from those who give up on the rat race and take stuff from others (criminals) and the enforcers of those who rig the rules (police working for politicians and financiers). Just so you know. I don't own a firearm and give out free hugs and try to share love. Love will overcome. but that's what we're talking about, right? gun deaths? i think--unless you're talking exclusively about petty crime (i.e., non-fatal crimes) that could increase when petty criminals perceive other people to be gunless and therefore defenseless--you'd be quite hard pressed to find hard data that suggests causality between fewer guns and crime increase. you are definitely correct that some of the gun exchange programs haven't done any good. but if you look at the somewhat hefty number that have been implemented over the years, it would be impossible NOT to find cases with unsuccessful results--or even results that appeared to worsen the problem. i say "appeared" because again, those results don't imply causality between fewer guns and more deaths: there are places in which crime rates were going to increase anyway. that will probably always be true. as to the genocide point, i think you're right again. about holocaust germany. and other cases, as you say, of mass genocide. but as with the second amendment, i don't see the relevance to 2013 america. how well would, say, a nebraksa militia fare against the united states army? in the big picture sense, i couldn't agree more that the root of the problem is with our culture. if i had my way, in lalaland, i'd get rid of ALL the guns. but do i think that would make this country a safe and progressive place to live? nope. (safeER, yes.) as much as we may try to deny it, we foster violence. we condone hate. we reward intolerance. that's where the sickness lies. wish i had a good suggestion for how to cure it. in the meantime, i, too will refrain from owning (or even touching) firearms and stick to giving hugs. there's a big one in noho with your name on it whenever you make it back this way, rick--or if i can ever get my behind out to CO. i appreciate the respectful and thoughtful discourse. love IS the way, lala* it's not fair to say "we condone hate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 What if all tomorow brings is ashes and glass And I can't tell you child, "this too shall pass" oh wait wrong board they don't play that song round here wish they did ... its a good one !!! Eaton should add a couple Rat Dog shows to the tour !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Great juxtaposition of a world gone wrong and dancing through it with a smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Great juxtaposition of a world gone wrong and dancing through it with a smile. Rick , take it easy on me , bud !!! I had to look that word up , and I still don't get it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taper Ron Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think the Chief's suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 So do the JETS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Mango Posted March 17, 2013 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 All things must pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted March 20, 2013 Author Advisory Board Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I like this picture, thought I'd share... i Am I stirring the pot??? Maybe just a little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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