Forum MVP Supplicated Velvet Thunder Posted April 1, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 It appears to me that Phil and maybe others in his band also do not have the right sensitivity about John. Some energy had gone out of him since he left his old friends. Listening to recordings of Furthur shows always evokes a feeling of loneliness while hearing John play. Such a feeling had never occurred to me when he was working together with DSO. It is the reason why I believe John went into a wrong direction. The conditions now do not seem to allow him to express himself in a way to grow and come into bloom. This makes me sad, because I love him and really miss him too. I feel this was one of the most refreshingly positive, heartfelt and honest paragraphs on the entire subject from any internet boards. Although seeing JK 'play for the masses' has its insanely synchronistic moments, there is a particular China Doll moment that I will NEVER forget and moments like that just did not HAPPEN in DSO (with or without him) and I know about everyone who has gone to see Furthur to 'check it out' has had similar moments... However, without John's um... 'sacrifice' (sacrilegious to say?) I personally never would have known 'what it was like' to tour the Grateful Dead because I was um, born too late and was never particularly interested in this music until I saw DSO play while John was in the band. I'm too new in all this to have really understood the depth and magnitude of all that occurred, but I am an emotionally well adjusted woman that knows all too well that when hearts, expectations, dreams and commitments just can't line up, change is bound to follow and break that hole on through the clouds. So, in the end, of COURSE, I am just grateful that he is out there doing the good work for the many. but what I am REALLY REALLY REALLY grateful for is this band that only those who really really really know how to and desire to suspend our conditional realities long enough to let enter a higher reality of musical and electromagnetic dancing fields that remind us all why we wake up each morning thrilled and grateful- to dance!- exists and shows only the signs of a well oiled machine really getting going. oh, DSO, each time I have seen you since that december when we planted a weeping willow in the front row you have wound yourselves closer into my heart and I am proud that I get teased by the 'ol' timers' our here in cali about loving that 'cover band' so much.... freakin' roll on FOREVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted April 1, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Bobby, I don't think walther was bashing jk. He appears to me to be expressing heartfelt emotions and his own personal perceptions. Perceptions are always true to the perceived but often could not be farther from the truth. Only jk knows whether an energy has left him and if he has been struck by some lonliness. I can say that I often perceive a lonliness in jerrys playing and certain songs demand lonliness to tell the story."I have been down every lonely..." I can understand why one would be initially taken back by some of walthers feelings, especially if you don't share them. However, its important to embrace all peoples feelings and encourage them to share. Thank you walther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walther Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Thank you very much for your understanding. There is nothing better than seeing John in a team of musicians that knows how the mental energy of each of its members can be released in the best possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbymcgee36 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Maybe a little harsh on Walther! Read his last few lines. I don't think he is bashing but sharing deep held feelings. He truly loves John! RB Bashing was the wrong word choice on my part. Only jk knows whether an energy has left him and if he has been struck by some lonliness. I guess that was the point I was trying to get at. Is it really fair to speculate 1) if Phil and "others in the band" have the right sensitivity "about John," 2) if John has lost energy, 3) if John made the wrong decision, or 4) if the conditions allow himself to grow and bloom, if you haven't even seen John play live or spoken to him? These are some pretty heavy opinions and IMHO these are things you can't find out just by listening to a tape... However, its important to embrace all peoples feelings and encourage them to share. Thank you walther. Thank you very much for your understanding. There is nothing better than seeing John in a team of musicians that knows how the mental energy of each of its members can be released in the best possible way. The speculatory nature of the post is what really bothered me I guess. If Walther had posted that he just saw JK play live and this is how he felt, I doubt I would have posted anything on this thread. I think it is great for everyone to have there own opinions, but I do think those opinions need some basis behind them, especially when you are sharing those opinions with others. And when you do share those opinions with others in an open forum like this, I think you should be prepared for getting other's opinions as well. Walther, I hope my posts on your topic have not be taken as a personal attack, because they aren't meant to be. Please continue to share your feelings and opinions, as will I. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 It appears to me that Phil and maybe others in his band also do not have the right sensitivity about John. Some energy had gone out of him since he left his old friends. Listening to recordings of Furthur shows always evokes a feeling of loneliness while hearing John play. Such a feeling had never occurred to me when he was working together with DSO. It is the reason why I believe John went into a wrong direction. The conditions now do not seem to allow him to express himself in a way to grow and come into bloom. This makes me sad, because I love him and really miss him too. I would mostly respectfully disagree with this comment. I think John has been great in Furthur..he just has a different role. Big diffference from being one of the founders of a band and spending 10 plus years with them and moving to a band where legends run the show. The furthur shows I have seen have been off the hook musically...Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run Mary Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Walther has posted on this board in the past, including when John was still with the band. He was always rhapsodic about John's work back then and didn't seem to notice John looking through the other musicians, thinking he was too good to integrate with them. His posts seemed to represent a lonely man who was hoping to make friends through the common interest of DSO. People were polite to him, but I didn't notice him getting as much contact as he was seeking. Then he struck gold. Not only did he make friends in Amsterdam, he started a relationship with Mr. Barraco. You all may remember Mr. Barraco from his famous “DSO got the better of the Jeff/John deal” post. After Amsterdam, Walther posted the first negative post I've seen from him. All of a sudden John has problems and DSO is the greatest things that has happened to this planet. After Mr. Barraco's swooning response to his first post, Walther went for more of this golden attention, informing us how John had lost his way and is suppressed/depressed and unable to express himself. What a mistake that he left DSO. When people objected to those statements, Mr. Barraco jumped in to defend Walther. Too harsh on Walther? Not harsh enough. Walther may want to note that John's new band is very successful and is drawing many more fans than his old band. Those of us who have seen John perform live with Furthur have found John to be flourishing and quite blooming. He is playing with a group that has much more experience than his old group and therefore he may seem to be taking a lesser position, but that is only to be expected. Mr. Barraco, your after-show conversations are quite legendary. Some of the fans who post on this site have told me they are embarrassed by the private information you disclose at these times. Perhaps problems with current or former band mates should be taken up with your fellow professionals, not with starstruck fans. And I mean that in the nicest, most genuine way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Walther has posted on this board in the past, including when John was still with the band. He was always rhapsodic about John's work back then and didn't seem to notice John looking through the other musicians, thinking he was too good to integrate with them. His posts seemed to represent a lonely man who was hoping to make friends through the common interest of DSO. People were polite to him, but I didn't notice him getting as much contact as he was seeking. Then he struck gold. Not only did he make friends in Amsterdam, he started a relationship with Mr. Barraco. You all may remember Mr. Barraco from his famous “DSO got the better of the Jeff/John deal” post. After Amsterdam, Walther posted the first negative post I've seen from him. All of a sudden John has problems and DSO is the greatest things that has happened to this planet. After Mr. Barraco's swooning response to his first post, Walther went for more of this golden attention, informing us how John had lost his way and is suppressed/depressed and unable to express himself. What a mistake that he left DSO. When people objected to those statements, Mr. Barraco jumped in to defend Walther. Too harsh on Walther? Not harsh enough. Walther may want to note that John's new band is very successful and is drawing many more fans than his old band. Those of us who have seen John perform live with Furthur have found John to be flourishing and quite blooming. He is playing with a group that has much more experience than his old group and therefore he may seem to be taking a lesser position, but that is only to be expected. Mr. Barraco, your after-show conversations are quite legendary. Some of the fans who post on this site have told me they are embarrassed by the private information you disclose at these times. Perhaps problems with current or former band mates should be taken up with your fellow professionals, not with starstruck fans. And I mean that in the nicest, most genuine way possible. I have no idea who you are Run Mary, but I couldn't help but notice that you are doing exactly what you are inferring Walther is doing! Knowing what is going on in someone elses head? I think it's called "projection"...you seem to have an axe of some sort to grind. You state that "friends" have been embarrassed by some post show conversations with RB and suggest he may want to keep it amongst themselves yet you post this to a public website...It all seems very contradictory to me and reeks of someone wanting attention...just like you accused Walther of..It's all a little confusing...But like the song says.."if you get confused"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Run Mary's post can only be described as bizarre and that is being kind..As far as Baracco goes even weirder..I have never seen a single post by Rob that has not been respectful, thoughtful and frankly diplomatic. To be honest it is posts like Run Mary's that cause Band members to stay away from a forum like this and tha't a real shame. And it's not just this forum. I see this on other forums related to people involved in the arts where you can simply throw out stuff to see if it sticks. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walther Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Bashing was the wrong word choice on my part. I guess that was the point I was trying to get at. Is it really fair to speculate 1) if Phil and "others in the band" have the right sensitivity "about John," 2) if John has lost energy, 3) if John made the wrong decision, or 4) if the conditions allow himself to grow and bloom, if you haven't even seen John play live or spoken to him? These are some pretty heavy opinions and IMHO these are things you can't find out just by listening to a tape... The speculatory nature of the post is what really bothered me I guess. If Walther had posted that he just saw JK play live and this is how he felt, I doubt I would have posted anything on this thread. I think it is great for everyone to have there own opinions, but I do think those opinions need some basis behind them, especially when you are sharing those opinions with others. And when you do share those opinions with others in an open forum like this, I think you should be prepared for getting other's opinions as well. Walther, I hope my posts on your topic have not be taken as a personal attack, because they aren't meant to be. Please continue to share your feelings and opinions, as will I. Peace. Thank you very much for all your helpful replies. What I can see clearly now that it is almost impossible to receive true mental information just by listening to tapes, even though I have listened to them as deep as possible for many times. The quality of information receiving through this channel is not sufficient enough to get in contact with the reality outside my brain. I can not get in touch with the truth. If I stick inside my brain yet, then it is really not fair to speculate 1) if Phil and "others in the band" have the right sensitivity "about John," 2) if John has lost energy, 3) if John made the wrong decision, or 4) if the conditions allow himself to grow and bloom. However, with your help from across the pond, I am able to evaluate my personal perceptions. This is a true gift, an important impulse leading me to three conclusions. First, although I live so far away in the German diaspora I will try to attend US shows again, since there is nothing better than that. There is definitely no alternative to see them play live, a result that encourages me to take the next step. Second, I will continue to share my feelings and opinions as honest and heartfelt as possible, but I need your help to achieve right understanding and insight. Third, I am free from tension now, free from regrets about the past and worries about John’s future. I can’t wait to meet with my new friends. Until then, all the best. Peace Walther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Rbarracoph Posted April 2, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Bashing was the wrong word choice on my part. I guess that was the point I was trying to get at. Is it really fair to speculate 1) if Phil and "others in the band" have the right sensitivity "about John," 2) if John has lost energy, 3) if John made the wrong decision, or 4) if the conditions allow himself to grow and bloom, if you haven't even seen John play live or spoken to him? These are some pretty heavy opinions and IMHO these are things you can't find out just by listening to a tape... The speculatory nature of the post is what really bothered me I guess. If Walther had posted that he just saw JK play live and this is how he felt, I doubt I would have posted anything on this thread. I think it is great for everyone to have there own opinions, but I do think those opinions need some basis behind them, especially when you are sharing those opinions with others. And when you do share those opinions with others in an open forum like this, I think you should be prepared for getting other's opinions as well. Walther, I hope my posts on your topic have not be taken as a personal attack, because they aren't meant to be. Please continue to share your feelings and opinions, as will I. Peace. First off, I hope no one misinterprets what I'm about to say. It's not about John or anyone else. It's about perception. I believe you can get a sense from listening to live music on recorded formats about where certain aspects of a musician are at. Just give a listen to dead shows where clearly some of the musicians are out of it, or bored, or both. I've been listening to and playing live music for over 40 years. I believe I have a little perspective in this matter. If you listen to John Coltrane in the later years circa '65, 66 his playing is extremely urgent, like he knows he has to get it all in because his life is about to end. Almost angry at the state of affairs with his health, the political climate in the country at that time, etc. Then listen to the last recordings and it swings back to almost gospel, serene, and at peace, acceptance of ones fate. Some musicians sound lost to me on certain recordings I've heard. Why they sound that way I'll never know, but thats my perception. You can't argue it, it just is. You might not agree, but that doesn't change how I feel. Yes, I think you need to see live music to be in that moment and be taken on the journey but you can still get a sense from the recordings, just a different experience. Walther saw DSO a number of times with John, so, IMHO, he has perspective. He knows what he(john) is capable of. I won't conjecture about whats going on in Further because I am knee deep in DSO land and don't have the inclination nor the time to spend. But, everyone needs to respect everyone else's opinions about one of the most subjective subjects on the planet. Sorry to ramble on, just got caught up in the moment. One last thought, nothing anyone says will keep me off these boards and from expressing my opinion. I would never bash anyone on an open forum. Privately I might share my opinions with others, but, that's my business!! If those people betray a confidence, so be it! I have nothing to hide. You all know where I am most of the time and you certainly know my name because it's posted right here! This forum reflects on what I hold sacred every day and I appreciate the feedback! Peace and lots of love to everyone!!!! You too Mary! RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP nwnj steve Posted April 2, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Walther,thanks for sharing your point of view ,its good to see you here on the boards once again the last being when you were out in cali I believe on J.K. s last west coast run ,we met in san diego at that outside venue on the beach ,i believe it was the show where Rob Eaton couldn t sing becouse he had a sore throat or something.It s good to see you got another oppertunity to see some shows ,you got to get on over here again -peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted April 3, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 !!! Thank you , your too kind !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbymcgee36 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thank you very much for all your helpful replies. What I can see clearly now that it is almost impossible to receive true mental information just by listening to tapes, even though I have listened to them as deep as possible for many times.... ...First, although I live so far away in the German diaspora I will try to attend US shows again, since there is nothing better than that. There is definitely no alternative to see them play live, a result that encourages me to take the next step. Second, I will continue to share my feelings and opinions as honest and heartfelt as possible, but I need your help to achieve right understanding and insight. Third, I am free from tension now, free from regrets about the past and worries about John’s future... Thanks for your input Walther, and if anything I am glad my input to the converastion possilby helped in you having a stronger urge to see more shows. I apologize if my initial reaction to your post was too strong in its approach. Yes, I think you need to see live music to be in that moment and be taken on the journey but you can still get a sense from the recordings, just a different experience.... ...everyone needs to respect everyone else's opinions about one of the most subjective subjects on the planet.... ...Peace and lots of love to everyone!!!! Thanks RB, and I completely agree with you on the above sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted April 3, 2012 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Walther,thanks for sharing your point of view ,its good to see you here on the boards once again the last being when you were out in cali I believe on J.K. s last west coast run ,we met in san diego at that outside venue on the beach ,i believe it was the show where Rob Eaton couldn t sing becouse he had a sore throat or something.It s good to see you got another oppertunity to see some shows ,you got to get on over here again -peace That was a fun time Steve !!! Walther , we met during that time also ... I think you were in California for most of that tour (2009) ... it was good to meet you then , and like Steve said , you gotta come visit over here again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walther Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Mary, if you want to learn about me and who we are please visit www.germanheads.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walther Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Walther,thanks for sharing your point of view ,its good to see you here on the boards once again the last being when you were out in cali I believe on J.K. s last west coast run ,we met in san diego at that outside venue on the beach ,i believe it was the show where Rob Eaton couldn t sing becouse he had a sore throat or something.It s good to see you got another oppertunity to see some shows ,you got to get on over here again -peace Ja, es war in San Diego. Ich erinnere mich gut an Dich. Herzliche Gruesse aus Wuerzburg, Deutschland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelle Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 When we see deeply into each human being, we are able to honor and learn from them ~ sometimes I think we are like threads in the fabric of existence... so interwoven and close ~ yet completely individual. We could speculate about John K's motivations for joining the big band... possibly hoping the opportunity would afford him the chance to grow a band of his own. Longing to have it different than it is... keeps you from hearing the whole way things are ~ Ram Dass One may wax sentimental about how things could be... all lost in dreaming. What if Dan Healy came back to mix the music? I think it's cool that Jeff had the opportunity to join the band. I always enjoyed the Zen Tricksters. Funny how things change. Funny how things stay the same. Sometime, if I could find the words, I'd like to discuss the unspoken thing ~ when the music plays the band... when the audience plays the band ~ when the magic of the moment takes the spirit out of the flesh, soaring to unknown heights. Songs that take you into different places ~ something about singing Birdsong... maybe it's the note progression, I'm not sure... but it seems to tune me up, so to speak. I used to sing it to my niece when she was a baby and she'd settle down everytime. Weather Report Suite often gives me an enlightened, out of body experience and I love it. But, it doesn't always happen. Just when the time is right, when the notes, the vibes, the people are right in tune... the magic happens. Like when the first few notes of Victim or the Crime ~ those heavy, vibrating notes reverberate the senses ~ creating a feeling, almost tribal, in the air ~ Like the opener to Crazy Fingers... then falls into the melody ~ symphonic and serene ~ singing plainly for you ~ these feelings are hard to put into words... but I try ~ We are confined by verbal language to describe amazing things we feel. And sometimes the feeling is so amazing... how can one put that into words? It almost detracts from the gift. How can one describe flavors of the music or the colors of sound? Everywhere and all of the time, it's bending my mind ~ I appreciate the members of DSO (musicians, crew and all involved). I'm very grateful we have the opportunity to share these wonderful times together. Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what you think ~ once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted April 4, 2012 Advisory Board Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 ROCKS LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walther Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 First off, I hope no one misinterprets what I'm about to say. It's not about John or anyone else. It's about perception. I believe you can get a sense from listening to live music on recorded formats about where certain aspects of a musician are at. Just give a listen to dead shows where clearly some of the musicians are out of it, or bored, or both. I've been listening to and playing live music for over 40 years. I believe I have a little perspective in this matter. If you listen to John Coltrane in the later years circa '65, 66 his playing is extremely urgent, like he knows he has to get it all in because his life is about to end. Almost angry at the state of affairs with his health, the political climate in the country at that time, etc. Then listen to the last recordings and it swings back to almost gospel, serene, and at peace, acceptance of ones fate. Some musicians sound lost to me on certain recordings I've heard. Why they sound that way I'll never know, but thats my perception. You can't argue it, it just is. You might not agree, but that doesn't change how I feel. Yes, I think you need to see live music to be in that moment and be taken on the journey but you can still get a sense from the recordings, just a different experience. Walther saw DSO a number of times with John, so, IMHO, he has perspective. He knows what he(john) is capable of. I won't conjecture about whats going on in Further because I am knee deep in DSO land and don't have the inclination nor the time to spend. But, everyone needs to respect everyone else's opinions about one of the most subjective subjects on the planet. Sorry to ramble on, just got caught up in the moment. One last thought, nothing anyone says will keep me off these boards and from expressing my opinion. I would never bash anyone on an open forum. Privately I might share my opinions with others, but, that's my business!! If those people betray a confidence, so be it! I have nothing to hide. You all know where I am most of the time and you certainly know my name because it's posted right here! This forum reflects on what I hold sacred every day and I appreciate the feedback! Peace and lots of love to everyone!!!! You too Mary! RB With normal perception, I see musicians like you, their equipment, the old hall in Amsterdam, the audience, dancers, people smile and I hear you and the others play, hear sound reflections, people talk, and first I think they exist separately of one another. At that stage, I check where the sound is best, wish people were stop talking, recognize songs, revive memories, and start to evaluate the performance. I know that everything is produced by my perceptions, which are, at least in part, wrong. I see that I cannot rely on this way of perceiving, and I want to be in direct touch with reality. Then, it helps me to focus on DSO play. When the interaction between the musicians starts to dissolve the boundaries, then, I am able to perceive more deeply. I concentrate to make myself deeply present. When I am deeply concentrated, I am absorbed in the music, I start to dance, mindfully. It is a dancing meditation. My mind dwells on whatever is happening in the present moment, even at it changes. I see that the musicians are in the music, and that the music, the equipment, and the audience are in the musicians, I go beyond outward appearances. Living each moment deeply while dancing, sustained concentration comes naturally, and that, in turn, gives rise to insight. I see the intimate connection between people, you and me. There is no separate self anymore. We contain each other. Happy Easter Walther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgrmag2564 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 It's been awhile since I have thought of Scott. He was o so personable. So young, yet so good. JK and Scott were very good together! Peace, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted April 5, 2012 Advisory Board Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 JK and Scott were very good together! On-stage they were!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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