Guest Hanuman Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 I do think it's inevitable that fans will want to discuss the relative strengths and weaknesses of Stu and Jeff, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I do think that the band (at least some of them) read these forums, and I suspect that the popular sentiment of the fans will carry some weight in the final decision. I agree with everyone who has pleaded for KINDNESS in our words and opinions. These are two open-hearted men who are offering their musical souls to us. We should carry on our conversations without TRASHING either of them. As was true with Jerry, great improvisational musicians have their good nights and bad nights. I remember nights where Jerry's playing and singing wouldn't have cut it in this situation. They're both excellent musicians, and DSO will continue to soar with either guy. That being said, I think Stu's got an edge vocally, but they both are killer guitarists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted April 24, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 and I suspect that the popular sentiment of the fans will carry some weight in the final decision. Couldn't disagree more. I think they are going to go with the person they feel, as a band, is a better fit. I think anyone eles's opinion will mean pretty much squat compared to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted April 24, 2010 Advisory Board Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 I think they are going to go with the person they feel, as a band, is a better fit. I think anyone eles's opinion will mean pretty much squat compared to that. *DING* *DING* We have a winner!! Sorry to tell you folks, but you can voice your opinion till your face turns blue... whatever you say will have ZERO effect on what the band really feels and who they want to stick around... Until then, why can't we all just enjoy the ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hanuman Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Regardless of it's effect on the band's decision, these discussions are happening, and I suggest we need to be kind and careful with our words - including with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP New York Steve Posted April 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 You gotta remember that probably like 1% of all DSO/Furthur fans are reading this board, and even less are posting. I think Dr. Barry is suggesting that the band reads these posts. If so: I would say to Kadlecik, Mattsen and Allen, this: -MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH THE CROWD, LOTS OF IT, THESE PEOPLE CAME TO COMMUNE WITH YOU -OPEN UP YOUR HEART TO THE LOVE THAT THOSE FIRST COUPLE OF ROWS ARE SENDING YOU FEEDING OFF THE LOVE FROM THE CROWD CAN PROVIDE AN ENORMOUS AMOUT OF CONFIDENCE -SMILE, A LOT! -DON'T TRY TUNES THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE -DANCE, MOVE, SHAKE, GET SOME KINDA MOTION GOING WHILE YOU ARE SINGING/PLAYING, REMEMBER THAT WHAT YOU DO-WE DO, IF YOU LOOK HAPPY AND ELATED TO BE HERE NOW, WE WILL FEED OFF THAT AND BOUNCE IT RIGHT BACK TO YOU -PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE DRUMMERS, PLAY YOUR RIFFS AGAINST THE DRUM TOMS, KICK AND CYMBAL CRASHES, FORGET THE RHYTHYM GUITAR, BASS AND KEYS, THE DRUMMERS ARE YOUR FOCUS, THE OTHER PLAYERS WILL FOLLOW -YOU ARE THE BAND LEADER, WHEN THE BAND LOOKS TO YOU TO TELL THE STORY LINE IN THE JAM-JOURNEY, TAKE IT!!!!! Really???????? I'm sure they will take this to heart. (In caps to boot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tinkerbell Posted April 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Really???????? I'm sure they will take this to heart. (In caps to boot) i really, really, want to be at your 60 th show in a year.... maybe nye snowed in, in denver..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GratefulDom Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 It only matters to me as I was starting to read posts that were touching on stuff that felt insensitive and possibly hurtful to the two people involved. Look at what "Jerryguy" posted in another thread this morning: "Must say that Jeff Mattson is a sub-standard vocalist and not the right choice. Stu Allen is a better fit. In a band that prides themselves on "attention to detail" it suprises me that they would would overlook a major detail such as being able to sing the greatest ballads ever written. Mattson, while an excellent player just cannot cut the vocal mustard. I have seen both many times and to me it is crystal clear. After comparing recent videos by both with DSO, I have to go with Stu...the band should NOT let him go. JM is older,looks less than healthy and can't sing as well. Stu's playing is great and will only get better.Why have a guy who clearly is not as talented, vocally? Makes no sense. Twenty buck says Stu stays! " I am voicing my opinion, that is not telling people what to do, but rather sharing my perspective and hopefully opening up the reader to perhaps a different point of view. A caring and civil point of view. My point was to interject a heightened sensitivity to the situation. We are dealing with real people here, and it is my hope that they don't get publicly discussed as some type of commodity. Just kindness. Not censorship. Not telling anyone what to do. Just sharing my thoughts... Dr. B That quote by Jerryguy makes me laugh, cuz Jerry was such a great vocalist.... With that said I thought that I was listening to good ol Jer when I saw JM play. Stu sings really good but his voice is not similar to Jerrys like Jeffs is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conti Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The only "original" member from the first time I saw Dark Star back in "97/"98 is LISA! I trust in their collective decision making process. The only constant in life is change. I like going to the shows, listening to the music, and anticipating the next time I get to see and hear 'em. Long live Dark Star Orchestra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted April 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 *DING* *DING* We have a winner!! Sorry to tell you folks, but you can voice your opinion till your face turns blue... whatever you say will have ZERO effect on what the band really feels and who they want to stick around... Until then, why can't we all just enjoy the ride? I'm enjoying the ride - possibly enough for those who aren't. See you in SoCal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP FunkyBass13 Posted April 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The only "original" member from the first time I saw Dark Star back in "97/"98 is LISA! I trust in their collective decision making process. The only constant in life is change. I like going to the shows, listening to the music, and anticipating the next time I get to see and hear 'em. Long live Dark Star Orchestra! Couldn't agree more. The first time I was blown away by this band Rob E, Rob B and Stu were nowhere near the stage. Three different members playing what is arguably the three biggest spots on the stage. It is the chemistry of these fine group of musicians that continues to blow me away every time that I see them. I don't see that changing anytime soon. One thing that continually comes to mind when discussions like these come up: Rob B. had a choice to make, continue playing with Phil & Friends or join DSO. I'm sure (though I have absolutely ZERO first-hand knowledge to back this us) P&F paid a little bit better than DSO. Therefore, I don't feel that it was a decision based on money. It was a decision based on what felt better and what Rob B wanted to be doing. I, for one, don't think he made the wrong choice. To me, that's one thing about this whole Grateful Dead experience that never seems to change: fans and non-fans alike both seem to continually discuss what it is about this music that drives us fans to do what we do. Jerry was always the easiest answer, but it is much, much more than that. YOu have a group of musicians that are improvising music that doesn't fit into any real category, which is something that we all love to do: categorize. I believe Jerry mislef said it best when he said "we don't play rock n roll, we play Grateful Dead music. This music is extremely unique and the musicians playing are the key. Without Phil, the GD wouldn't have been the same. Without Bobby, the GD wouldn't have been the same. Without Pigpen......., without Billy......etc, etc, etc. It was about the right people coming together at the right time to do something unique and special. The naysayers always gripe about how DSO isn't doing something original. I say, its not about being original. Its about tapping in to the vibe, spirit and emotion of the music and carrying on the torch. There is NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE who comes as close to the overall feel and vibe of the Grateful Dead like DSO does. And that includes the remaining original members. Now I'm not saying that I don't like what Ratdog does, because I do. There have been moments for me when Phil & Friends has really got me going, though i will also fess up that P&F is me least favorite of the post-Jerry Dead bands. The Other Ones had their moments and so did The Dead and so does Furthur. However, none of these bands, nor any other bands I have seen that play Grateful Dead music can come close to capturing what I felt and still feel while listening to the Grateful Dead. Only one who can give me that feeling is DSO and they have everytime I have seen them, regardless of who was on the stage. Why is that? I believe, as I stated before, it is because of the chemistry of those people on the stage and what it is that they are trying to do. Not to say that any of the other bands I have referenced aren't doing it right or are doing it wrong, they are just doing it different. Do I blame any of the original GD members for wanting to continue playing this music but also continuing to let the music evolve into something different? Absolutely not. it makes perfect sense to me that Bobby led Ratdog in a different direction while still playing the same songs. I also don't buy in to the naysayers that say us Deadheads who follow DSO are just living in the past. On the contrary, I feel that we are very much in the present as we are continuing to follow this music in its most organic state. Anyone who plays music and loves the Dead will be able to attest to the fact that aside from a few songs in the catalog, Grateful Dead music is not the most complex music out there. it is all about the feel, emotion and vibe that comes out when you play it. Many songs in the catalog were not written or originally performed by the GD. However, given the choice, I definitely prefer most of the GD version to the originals and that is based upon that "it" that comes with the way the GD played the songs. I love Bob Dylan. But I honestly can say that I prefer listening to the Dead do She Belongs To Me and Stuck Inside of Mobile(to name two). Same goes for many others. I guess what my ramblings is really trying to say is that I have to question anyone who says that they loved the Grateful Dead but don't like DSO because it seems to me that if you were there for the music and not just the scene(not that there's anything wrong with that) how you could not understand and love what DSO is able to do because no one else seems to be able to do it. Long live DSO Quote from Blindman: "Until Cavey gets his/her chance at the lead slot, I'm abstaining from voting. Period. " Does this mean that its time to get the whole Let Cavey Sing movement on its feet? I'm in. Sorry for the long, rambling post. I'm still on my first cup of coffee this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted April 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 That quote by Jerryguy makes me laugh, cuz Jerry was such a great vocalist.... Actually, to some of us, he was the greatest vocalist that ever was. But I do get your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP John A Posted April 26, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Actually, to some of us, he was the greatest vocalist that ever was. Wow, Stone gets two DING / DING / winner (s) in the same thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP FunkyBass13 Posted April 26, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Wow, Stone gets two DING / DING / winner (s) in the same thread! Stone is good like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP gr8fulpair Posted April 26, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Couldn't agree more. The first time I was blown away by this band Rob E, Rob B and Stu were nowhere near the stage. Three different members playing what is arguably the three biggest spots on the stage. It is the chemistry of these fine group of musicians that continues to blow me away every time that I see them. I don't see that changing anytime soon. One thing that continually comes to mind when discussions like these come up: Rob B. had a choice to make, continue playing with Phil & Friends or join DSO. I'm sure (though I have absolutely ZERO first-hand knowledge to back this us) P&F paid a little bit better than DSO. Therefore, I don't feel that it was a decision based on money. It was a decision based on what felt better and what Rob B wanted to be doing. I, for one, don't think he made the wrong choice. To me, that's one thing about this whole Grateful Dead experience that never seems to change: fans and non-fans alike both seem to continually discuss what it is about this music that drives us fans to do what we do. Jerry was always the easiest answer, but it is much, much more than that. YOu have a group of musicians that are improvising music that doesn't fit into any real category, which is something that we all love to do: categorize. I believe Jerry mislef said it best when he said "we don't play rock n roll, we play Grateful Dead music. This music is extremely unique and the musicians playing are the key. Without Phil, the GD wouldn't have been the same. Without Bobby, the GD wouldn't have been the same. Without Pigpen......., without Billy......etc, etc, etc. It was about the right people coming together at the right time to do something unique and special. The naysayers always gripe about how DSO isn't doing something original. I say, its not about being original. Its about tapping in to the vibe, spirit and emotion of the music and carrying on the torch. There is NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE who comes as close to the overall feel and vibe of the Grateful Dead like DSO does. And that includes the remaining original members. Now I'm not saying that I don't like what Ratdog does, because I do. There have been moments for me when Phil & Friends has really got me going, though i will also fess up that P&F is me least favorite of the post-Jerry Dead bands. The Other Ones had their moments and so did The Dead and so does Furthur. However, none of these bands, nor any other bands I have seen that play Grateful Dead music can come close to capturing what I felt and still feel while listening to the Grateful Dead. Only one who can give me that feeling is DSO and they have everytime I have seen them, regardless of who was on the stage. Why is that? I believe, as I stated before, it is because of the chemistry of those people on the stage and what it is that they are trying to do. Not to say that any of the other bands I have referenced aren't doing it right or are doing it wrong, they are just doing it different. Do I blame any of the original GD members for wanting to continue playing this music but also continuing to let the music evolve into something different? Absolutely not. it makes perfect sense to me that Bobby led Ratdog in a different direction while still playing the same songs. I also don't buy in to the naysayers that say us Deadheads who follow DSO are just living in the past. On the contrary, I feel that we are very much in the present as we are continuing to follow this music in its most organic state. Anyone who plays music and loves the Dead will be able to attest to the fact that aside from a few songs in the catalog, Grateful Dead music is not the most complex music out there. it is all about the feel, emotion and vibe that comes out when you play it. Many songs in the catalog were not written or originally performed by the GD. However, given the choice, I definitely prefer most of the GD version to the originals and that is based upon that "it" that comes with the way the GD played the songs. I love Bob Dylan. But I honestly can say that I prefer listening to the Dead do She Belongs To Me and Stuck Inside of Mobile(to name two). Same goes for many others. I guess what my ramblings is really trying to say is that I have to question anyone who says that they loved the Grateful Dead but don't like DSO because it seems to me that if you were there for the music and not just the scene(not that there's anything wrong with that) how you could not understand and love what DSO is able to do because no one else seems to be able to do it. Long live DSO Quote from Blindman: "Until Cavey gets his/her chance at the lead slot, I'm abstaining from voting. Period. " Does this mean that its time to get the whole Let Cavey Sing movement on its feet? I'm in. Sorry for the long, rambling post. I'm still on my first cup of coffee this morning Word. FB thanks for this. It saved me a shitload of typing!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted April 26, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Stone is good like that. That's what she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlene Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 You know ... there is something that it seems everyone is missing - and which the band made clear - they will pick someone new for the guitar player spot as soon as they find the right person and they are available. No one has said it would be either Stu or Jeff you know ... It could easily be someone else. Maybe those two are just fill in's ? Get back to enjoying DSO shows and let them worry about finding a new permanent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP FunkyBass13 Posted April 27, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Get back to enjoying DSO shows and let them worry about finding a new permanent player. Haven't had one yet that I didn't enjoy the hell out of and I'll continue to enjoy for as long as they keep coming around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennKev Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 I was extremely worried when John left and voiced my concerns on here. After seeing the band w/ Jeff, my fears were laid to rest. The videos on you tube that I have seen w/ Stu sound mighty darn nice as well. Check out the Promised Land on youtube. If they choose Jeff or Stu, that is groovy w/ me. If it is someone else, I have learned to trust their judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgrmag2564 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Here's the thing, everyone has a different opinion on things, the more a particular subject means to someone, the more passionate they will be about their opinion. Ok, but we have to remember that just because someone has a different opinion on a subject, doesn't mean they are the most evil entity ever conceived. I think the point of this thread is to remember that someone else's opinion means as much to them as yours does to you, and post with that in mind. No need for personal attacks and banter. (I must say that I have seen very little of that on this board) IMHO Peace, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted April 27, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 You know ... there is something that it seems everyone is missing - and which the band made clear - they will pick someone new for the guitar player spot as soon as they find the right person and they are available. No one has said it would be either Stu or Jeff you know ... It could easily be someone else. Maybe those two are just fill in's ? Get back to enjoying DSO shows and let them worry about finding a new permanent player. We're not missing anything ... we're still going to shows and enjoying what they do ... and trust the band to make the right decision for them to move forward ... some of us are just voicing our opinions , it's normal and nothing that can be stopped ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugdog Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfool Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 I do believe however if DSO plans on being the juggernaut touring vehicle that it has been for the last 10 years, Stu Allen is the guy. Even at his relatively young age, both his lead and harmony vocals do not mimic Garcia but capture his sweet melancholy soulfulness. I AGREE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 I AGREE http://www.archive.org/details/DSO2010-02-27.dso2010-02-27.flac I listened to this show in its entirety yesterday...and although I have yet to see DSO with JM live....good lord this is amazing! Jeff is a monster guitar player....He has the ability to build thematic leads and bring to the table that Garcia sound of psychedelic panic. I was thoroughly blown away by his playing! The band has two wonderful lead guitarists to choose from...It really comes down to personal preference as a listener/fan...I personally can't wait to see the band with JM as his playing suits me just fine as someone who loves the early 70's GD period. Happy trails..Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GratefulDom Posted May 1, 2010 Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 http://www.archive.org/details/DSO2010-02-27.dso2010-02-27.flac He has the ability to build thematic leads and bring to the table that Garcia sound of psychedelic panic. That is quite the understatement. He took me to a place Ive never been before, which was wayyy in the stratosphere.. I gotta add the version they did of BT Wind could easily be my favorite version after dicks picks 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugdog Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 Nice stuff indeed... http://www.archive.org/details/DSO2010-02-27.dso2010-02-27.flac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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