Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 19, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Losing Jay hurts Furthur. I would suggest they find someone to replace him because I don't think Joe can get the entire drum sound by himself. I loved the Billy only shows too, but I don't think Joe is on Billy's level. Maybe Molo after sitting in at the birthday and his long standing relationship with Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 If they stick with the one drummer approach, they are really going to be limited in the shows they can recreate... They'll have to do more electives ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP John A Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 ... I like Jay and thought he added lots of color to the band in the beginning but as Furthur progressed he seem to slip into the background and loose all that fun animation he had in Oakland .... His physical activity at the Barton Hall show was totally muted vs. his animated nature at the Fox. Molo could step in, but it seems that his playing is too similar to Russo's for that to really make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted March 20, 2010 Advisory Board Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 If they stick with the one drummer approach, they are really going to be limited in the shows they can recreate... They'll have to do more electives ... :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawdoc Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 :rofl: They have their DSO goggles on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subcooler Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 His physical activity at the Barton Hall show was totally muted vs. his animated nature at the Fox. Molo could step in, but it seems that his playing is too similar to Russo's for that to really make sense. FWIW- When I saw Furthur in Atlantic City, it seemed Jay was just putting in time behind the drum kit, not enjoying it like he was in '09 east coast shows! It appears the controlling nature of this band has taken it's first casualty! I find it amusing that Furthur is moving forward with a solo drummer......Is that taking the music furthur(as they claim) or just allowing them to continue to squeeze $$$$$$ from the music? Even with the smaller drum kits they used( laughable compared to the Beast),they sounded pretty good. While Billy was impressive as a solo drummer, he was put in that role by neccessity not design.The music benefits greatly from tandem drummers.And by the way.....Joe Russo ain't no Billy K. Billy & Mickey's lack of interest in this latest band should have been the tipoff that these guys ain't gonna make it longterm-Not taking anything away from the Lane/Russo team. I found Phil's explanation funny....Jay just "wanted to pursue other opportunities" The whole Bobbies bus thing makes this seem like a very divided band. I wonder who has to ride on the Lesh bus? Is that a management only vehicle? Is there a 3rd bus for non-members of Ratdog/ P &F members? Will Furthur make it into 2011 ? When will the spin doctors show up here & explain this is really a good thing for the music ? So many questions, so little time...... Anxiously awaiting DSO spring tour, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Bluebird Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 i will miss jay. i too was surprised to see how diminished his activity was when i saw him in hampton/fairfax. i loved how he played his set with his whole body. i wasn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeyedbert Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 FWIW- When I saw Furthur in Atlantic City, it seemed Jay was just putting in time behind the drum kit, not enjoying it like he was in '09 east coast shows! It appears the controlling nature of this band has taken it's first casualty! I find it amusing that Furthur is moving forward with a solo drummer......Is that taking the music furthur(as they claim) or just allowing them to continue to squeeze $$$$$$ from the music? Even with the smaller drum kits they used( laughable compared to the Beast),they sounded pretty good. While Billy was impressive as a solo drummer, he was put in that role by neccessity not design.The music benefits greatly from tandem drummers.And by the way.....Joe Russo ain't no Billy K. Billy & Mickey's lack of interest in this latest band should have been the tipoff that these guys ain't gonna make it longterm-Not taking anything away from the Lane/Russo team. I found Phil's explanation funny....Jay just "wanted to pursue other opportunities" The whole Bobbies bus thing makes this seem like a very divided band. I wonder who has to ride on the Lesh bus? Is that a management only vehicle? Is there a 3rd bus for non-members of Ratdog/ P &F members? Will Furthur make it into 2011 ? When will the spin doctors show up here & explain this is really a good thing for the music ? So many questions, so little time...... Anxiously awaiting DSO spring tour, Rob Lol. Is this post real? Or do you hate Phil that much? From this post and all the other negative Phil posts I have read, I got it! Phil is an evil, evil man. Stark raving control freakin mad. At 70 he has devised a plan to destroy the band that plays his music and steal as much money from his fans as he can. There is no way it is this sinister. I'm sure Phil has been an asshole more than once. I know I have. But I have to beleive that he is a good guy. In my opinion he is a rich, old, insanely talanted man who wants his band run his way. Nothing more, nothing less. Oh and I've rethought dismissing 2 drummers. I was just trying to make Furthur the Grateful Dead 1974. I need to stop doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Phil runs a tight ship from what I hear , and he and Jill really don't want certain things to be done on tour with them ... I believe there was an incedent where Jill voiced her opinion about certain goings on back stage that resulted in the Steve Kimock walk off of a P&F tour ... that all being said , there was a certain looseness to the Rat Dog way of touring that Jay may be more accustom to (?) , he smokes lots of weed and isn't afraid to tell ya about it ... does this have anything to do with his or the decision to leave the band , who knows (???)... does it look good for a new band to lose a member that had an obvious attitude change on stage during the short time this band has been together , another who knows (???) , we'll each look at it differently and come up with a different take on it all , its what we do ... what I do know is that 2 qualified drummers in a band laying down heavy grooves together is the shit to me ... I love the sound and feel of the power coming off the stage from Mickey and Billy , Rob and Dino , and so I think the decision to go with one drummer if that's what they really do IMHO is a bad decision ... time will tell all and so will the folks attending the shows !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Phil runs a tight ship from what I hear , I love ya buddy but I think it would be pretty cool if people stopped taking what they hear and giving it credence. It's hard for me to understand how, today, so many on here who have toured with the GD can simply take that leap of faith and believe what they hear knowing how much bs is out there. That's my advice to all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I agree with Stone. We shouldn't being making things up or spreading rumors we have heard. For sure, Kimock had a fallen out with Phil and decided not to play with P+F's anymore. I've heard it was over a joint or over tie-dye T-shirt, but I don't know this and I don't feel a need to assert these things as fact. All we know is Jay is leaving Furthur and the reasons are actually pretty irrelevant. Maybe he wants to play Claypool. I've heard that guy is a beast on the bass; well actually I've witnessed it. However, I certainly think he needs to be replaced and Furthur's sound will diminish without him. I already thought Furthur's drumming could use work with 2 drummers; I certainly think they need work with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I love ya buddy but I think it would be pretty cool if people stopped taking what they hear and giving it credence. It's hard for me to understand how, today, so many on here who have toured with the GD can simply take that leap of faith and believe what they hear knowing how much bs is out there. That's my advice to all of us. Love you to Dave !!! you know your one of my favs here ... your serious about Jerry and the Grateful Dead and you put the time in that it took to be one of the faithful and earned you rights to your opinions ... but if we didn't post the things we know and hear or the things we think we know and hear and our opinions and takes on a situation and no one replied to these things as you did , this would be one lonely place ... but I do completely understand what your getting at , trust me .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Love you to Dave !!! you know your one of my favs here ... your serious about Jerry and the Grateful Dead and you put the time in that it took to be one of the faithful and earned you rights to your opinions ... but if we didn't post the things we know and hear or the things we think we know and hear and our opinions and takes on a situation and no one replied to these things as you did , this would be one lonely place ... but I do completely understand what your getting at , trust me .... Mikey, I will call later. Sorry my phone died while we were talking yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 but if we didn't post the things we know and hear or the things we think we know and hear and our opinions and takes on a situation and no one replied to these things as you did , this would be one lonely place ... but I do completely understand what your getting at , trust me .... I get what you are saying as well, but I just want us to be better than that. Leave that US Weekly stuff to Org and the Zone. That's my opnion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Dr. Barry Posted March 20, 2010 Advisory Board Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I wouldn't be unhappy if the 2 female vocalists left the lineup either. In Chicago I barely heard them and many times they weren't on stage. Where multi part harmonies are called for a JK, Bob, Phil sandwich sounds tasty enough for me, no need for any more fluff. Also, let's not forget that there is a very strong vocalist named JK on stage whose vocal chords could add quite a bit more to the mix if he were enlisted to do so. And that would also be 2 less people on the payroll if anyone is counting pennies. I like a nice and clean sound, and between JK, Bob and Phil, Furthur has all the vocal strength it needs. JK just needs to be a bigger part of any backup harmonies and problem solved. The 2 vocalists are a nice idea but in a big electric band it just muddies up the crispiness for me, unlike in JGB where the vocalists were a very prominent component to the vocals, not just a background fill. Dr. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted March 20, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I wouldn't be unhappy if the 2 female vocalists left the lineup either. In Chicago I barely heard them and many times they weren't on stage. Where multi part harmonies are called for a JK, Bob, Phil sandwich sounds tasty enough for me, no need for any more fluff. Also, let's not forget that there is a very strong vocalist named JK on stage whose vocal chords could add quite a bit more to the mix if he were enlisted to do so. And that would also be 2 less people on the payroll if anyone is counting pennies. I like a nice and clean sound, and between JK, Bob and Phil, Furthur has all the vocal strength it needs. JK just needs to be a bigger part of any backup harmonies and problem solved. The 2 vocalists are a nice idea but in a big electric band it just muddies up the crispiness for me, unlike in JGB where the vocalists were a very prominent component to the vocals, not just a background fill. Dr. B I agree with your points but the problem is, on songs like UJB and Rider for example, it was just Bob and Phil, and it was clear to anyone in the room that this was not working. John's voice would have fixed that right quick but in lieu of that, the vocalists are better than nothing--they certainly help on the harmonies. They give a nice gospel vibe to Bid u too. On another but slightly related subject (since the two women are great on this), John's solos on the Time from Co are cool as shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 I wouldn't be unhappy if the 2 female vocalists left the lineup either. In Chicago I barely heard them and many times they weren't on stage. Where multi part harmonies are called for a JK, Bob, Phil sandwich sounds tasty enough for me, no need for any more fluff. Also, let's not forget that there is a very strong vocalist named JK on stage whose vocal chords could add quite a bit more to the mix if he were enlisted to do so. And that would also be 2 less people on the payroll if anyone is counting pennies. I like a nice and clean sound, and between JK, Bob and Phil, Furthur has all the vocal strength it needs. JK just needs to be a bigger part of any backup harmonies and problem solved. The 2 vocalists are a nice idea but in a big electric band it just muddies up the crispiness for me, unlike in JGB where the vocalists were a very prominent component to the vocals, not just a background fill. Dr. B Dr. B, In general, I would completely agree with your premise on having backup vocals in an electric rock band (goes for horn sections too). I am a big proponent of the idea that "less is more". For that reason, I have always appreciated the rock power trios like Cream and Rush. Just a drum, bass, and lead guitar--what could be more basic? Rock distilled to its bare essence. It also is very demanding for the musicians as there is nowhere to hide from second rate playing. Of course, having more musicians playing like the Grateful Dead, adds more "color" to the sound, and I obviously appreciate that sound. However, there is a limit, and the GD formation is about as large as I want to listen to. This was why I was quite unsatified with the Phil B-day show. Affer the first set, I kept thinking "Get JG, CR and that second keyboard player off the f'n stage. already!!" When I first heard that backup singers were added during the first MIll Valley rehearsal shows, my first thought was "Oh shit--here we go again with a bloated band. What you say about letting JK fill in the vocals is absolutely true in the ideal world. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen in Philland, and we are stuck with the limited vocal ranges of Phil and Bob on much of their live performance. I have been pleasantly surprised with my impressions of the backup vocalists. Phil has had the good sense to use them to help supplant the limitations of his own voice, but not use them to excess. On more than one occasion I have appeciated that Phil's voice was being slightly drowned out by these two ladies, who sing with good harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP John A Posted March 21, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 ...the vocalists are better than nothing--they certainly help on the harmonies. Correct. They are subtle, but they are effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Wow--I hadn't heard about Jay Lane until just now. I apparantly skipped over that part of this thread and commented on the later posts about the backup singers. I actually thought something was up at Phil's birthday show when Jay only played the first set. They seemed to be marginalizing him. I personally like his energetic drumming style, although I understand how some might be put off by his bouncing around. I thought Russo and Molo were pretty amazing at this show. They were a real machine back there during the third set. If Molo ends up with the band, I would not be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted March 22, 2010 Advisory Board Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Wow--I hadn't heard about Jay Lane until just now. I apparantly skipped over that part of this thread and commented on the later posts about the backup singers. I actually thought something was up at Phil's birthday show when Jay only played the first set. They seemed to be marginalizing him. I personally like his energetic drumming style, although I understand how some might be put off by his bouncing around. I thought Russo and Molo were pretty amazing at this show. They were a real machine back there during the third set. If Molo ends up with the band, I would not be disappointed. From what I understand, Jay is leaving to go and work with Primus, the band in which he started years and years ago with Claypool. I think he might have gotten burned out a little with the Dead stuff, so he's looking to regain his passion for a different style of music... I'm sad to see Jay go, but being a person who will only go see Furthur when they are within a 1 1/2 hour driving distance, it isn't gonna bother me to much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted March 22, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hmm.. I'm not sure that he got "burnt out" on the music itself... I'm sure his love for Grateful Dead music is eternal... possibly burnt out on other things going with the band, or maybe he just couldn't do both. I heard that he actually wanted to play in both bands. These are of course just rumors.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hi y'all- had to weigh in... 1. I think I can safely speak for Jay Lane on this: he absolutely *loves* Grateful Dead music, he played 15 years with Rat Dog, but... 2. His true, first musical love is playing drum kit, not percussion. I think he enjoyed percussion and gave 110% into making it work, but... 3. Jay was one of the founding members of Primus back in the late 80's, and I heard his demos from back then... smokin' versions of songs that ended up on "Frizzle Fry".... that lineup reunited as Sausage in the mid 90's, and Jay was also in Les Claypool's Frog Brigade... so when Les called him... see #2 above. 4. I will miss the hell out of him. Really sweet dude! I really dig Joe, too, though, and I think he'll hold his own just fine. Not lurking... just passing by... Namaste, -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP kdubfan Posted March 23, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was happy to see your post JK. I have been rockin out a lot of classic DSO as of late. Spring time and Grateful Dead music just fits so well keep cookin that skyline my brother ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP nwnj steve Posted March 23, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was at woodstock 94" when Primus went on stage before Bob & Rob Wasserman ,I wonder if thats when they first met? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted March 23, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 thank you for clearing that up John.. I had no idea he was a founding member of Primus. old band photo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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