Hammerstein Night Two

[sgrmag2564]

I don't get it...Jk probably doesn't care what he sings. He is making the music he loves with a couple of the band members that created it. I personally think that Rueben and Cherise is a sign of things to come...did you see that crowd during that song. I could feel the energy coming thru my computer. I think sooner or later they will get around to more JGB tunes and that is where John will shine. He may not ever sing Stella Blue, SOTM, or Candyman, but I will be VERY excited to watch him do a wonderful Moonlight or Mission. For me that will be worth the price of admission!

Peace,

Joe

[ThinMan]

neutrino - i am with you 100% and really don't care if it is insulting to phil or bobby. they have for years insulted their fans with the crap they have put on the stage, so now we can't criticize them because we need to be grateful for the musical gift they given us. gag me with a spoon.

and as dstone is getting at, i am over the lyrics thing, that does not bother me, but will they let jk lead the band where he wants to go, did that deal come storming out of the stranger?? ala nassau '80 out of the saint?? i don't think so. this will be the true measure and i think even from oakland to hammer there has been some improvements in this...

didn't bobby bascially start the china cat in oakland with his chords, now jk needs to start that

or if they get deep into a other one, can jk steer the band into a he's gone, or does he have to follow phil's directions thru the earpiece...

[sonomajon]

There are some nice vids with good sound here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SugarMags09

[Taper Ron]

What a bunch of bullshit!

[VincentPuleo]

Right on HelpSlip! this ain't DSO with Phil and Bob...

I think that Deal says it all...

Phil and Bob clearly enjoying themselves looking damn satisfied with what they were hearing. Amazing trading between Jeff and John.

JK... singing Deal...

on the same stage...

as Phil Lesh and Bob Weir.

that is all I have to say.

So psyched for tonight!

[sonomajon]

neutrino - i am with you 100% and really don't care if it is insulting to phil or bobby. they have for years insulted their fans with the crap they have put on the stage, so now we can't criticize them because we need to be grateful for the musical gift they given us. gag me with a spoon.

and as dstone is getting at, i am over the lyrics thing, that does not bother me, but will they let jk lead the band where he wants to go, did that deal come storming out of the stranger?? ala nassau '80 out of the saint?? i don't think so. this will be the true measure and i think even from oakland to hammer there has been some improvements in this...

didn't bobby bascially start the china cat in oakland with his chords, now jk needs to start that

or if they get deep into a other one, can jk steer the band into a he's gone, or does he have to follow phil's directions thru the earpiece...

Umm...JK is not going to be the steering wheel in this band after 5 fucking shows! If this is your goal than hang it up and see what tomorrow brings! The sense of entitlement regarding JK and what YOU think should be happening is laughable...Sure DSO has been doing beautiful justice to the repertoire for quite some time now...but this is a new band John is in...by his own choice...and I'm sure he knew quite well what he was getting into...don't worry be happy and go see them if you are so inclined or not...and from what I can tell they are, like any new band having some wonderful moments and some not so wonderful...the transitions are rough at the moment...Jerry steered the ship for the most part and whether he acknowledged it or not he was THE leader of the band...

[Dstone5553]

neutrino - i am with you 100% and really don't care if it is insulting to phil or bobby. they have for years insulted their fans with the crap they have put on the stage, so now we can't criticize them because we need to be grateful for the musical gift they given us. gag me with a spoon.

Paul, you have seen less that 1/8 of 1% of the post 95 stuff(actually much less than that)-as have I. We were both turned off by Phil's vocals and stuff like that but there are many people who feel Phil has had some bands, like Q for instance, that have done some serious stuff.

I haven't seen it but I know I've talked to people whom i respect who have and I have even listened to a tiny bit of it.

You can't just say they've produced garbage and either can I because we don't know what we are talking about--we haven't been there to witness it.

[ThinMan]

we checked in enough and nothing grabbed us, i trust my gut on this

sonomajon it is opinion, not a sense of entitlement, i feel like GD music has to be led by a ballsy lead guitar player, and if not, it falls flat

[VincentPuleo]

I feel people loose sight of what Phil & Friends is... the connection to Grateful Dead seems like its everything but Phil really is just taking the songs... and as Rob B has said opening them up and just exploring. Which is awesome. My first "show" in my case... was Phil & Friends with Barry Sless and Larry Campbell. I saw them three times and each one was an amazing experience.

[sonomajon]

we checked in enough and nothing grabbed us, i trust my gut on this

sonomajon it is opinion, not a sense of entitlement, i feel like GD music has to be led by a ballsy lead guitar player, and if not, it falls flat

We all miss Jerry...and JK ain't no Jerry (with all due respect...love John) and DSO for the most part up until recently...recreated Grateful Dead shows...so the show was somewhat mapped out...so what makes you think John is suited to lead this band?

[neutrino]

we checked in enough and nothing grabbed us, i trust my gut on this

sonomajon it is opinion, not a sense of entitlement, i feel like GD music has to be led by a ballsy lead guitar player, and if not, it falls flat

I completely share your view on the importance of the lead guitar to this music. The very word "lead" is not an accident of terminology. The Sunday Oakland Furthur show was the first Phil or Bobby show where I got the wonderful buzz that I used to get at GD shows (and thankfully still do at DSO shows!). It's was JK that made it happen on Sunday. It was also the best Weir guitar I have heard in over a decade, and I attribute this to having a bold sounding JK to play against. On Friday, they had JK on a leash for the first set, and it was a huge disappointment as far as I was concerned. During the second set, they let him have some more freedom, and it was much better. However, that first set kind of killed the whole evening for me. The same feeling of letdown was shared by the other two I was with. Had I not already had a Sunday ticket, I would have been happy to skip it. Sunday was a complete surprise, and it seemed like a whole different band up on the stage.

[John A]

It was interesting to see a song find it's place with them too. A song like Standing on the Moon did not immediately find it's rightful post space ballad slot until it got played enough and showed all of them where it HAD to go. However, Day Between knew right off the bat.

Nothing post '95 stands out cause there are no rules at all. Anything goes. So you can't compare anything set wise to GD paper.

Two good observations, on the two paragraphs I quoted above. Particularly paragraph #1.

Of course back in the day, we all complained from time to time about how rigid the structure could be!

[nwnj steve]

we checked in enough and nothing grabbed us, i trust my gut on this

i feel like GD music has to be led by a ballsy lead guitar player, and if not, it falls flat

I always felt the same way about post Grateful Dead music,I just never felt bobby or phil gotta a lead guitarist that they would really let them fly .It always seemed like their was some sort of control on it all .The one band that I thought came close was Billy & Mickey's a few years back when they had Mike gorden & Steve Kimock playing together .Seen them up at the vibes ,man they were good.

[Guest crazy digits]

I must come clean > I know I have been harsh...I AM going Sunday and will reserve complete judgment until then....I am a tough GD music critic..just am.....I like the GD's body of music to sound like the GD, that's all...if it doesn't, I don't go....obviously to each his own....

I thought JK ( dreamed, I guess ) would come in and lead the way, pave the way, what have you...so far, not so much but I am still hopeful that this may change. Lets face it, the lead guitar player in any GD band is what drives it for me...that doesn't mean the others shouldn't pull their weight or are not important because they are ( DSO proves that night in and night out ) ...The ONLY reason I am going to see Furthur is because of JK, period....BTW, would you have continued to go see the GD if Jerry wasn't in the band? I have tried over and over to go see all of the OTHER bands and it has been a disaster, at least for me... ( except DSO - which includes anyone they put on lead guitar )

I know of several folks ( you know who you are ) that were in Oakland and have decided that they are done with Furthur....Why, well Wednesday night may have something to do with it? JK is the reason for this Furthur thing and if he is not, then why hire the guy? Thats all....

Matt, you are right buddy....my panties are in a tight bunch :-) love your input you crazy bastard..,....BTW, I love you all regardless of your thoughts...we all deserve to have our own thoughts..some may provoke others and If mine have just remember, who really cares?

[chuckvegas]

I care, Roger.

[Teacher Matt]

Bix - here is how to solve that problem... don't wear them... I don't ..

kind of like Bill Murray in Stripes... "checks dig me because I rarely wear underwear ... and when I do its usually something wild"

love ya to my old friend.... hope to see ya soon ... might not be another show for me until back here on the West Coast...

[anddave]

Jk probably doesn't care what he sings.

right on

they have for years insulted their fans with the crap they have put on the stage, so now we can't criticize them because we need to be grateful for the musical gift they given us. gag me with a spoon.

"crap they've put on the stage" is more insult than criticism sez me

What a bunch of bullshit!

right on

has to be led by a ballsy lead guitar player

who says he's not leading? a good leader motivates the team.

all of the OTHER bands and it has been a disaster, at least for me

Disaster? I've seen some weak shows but that's a strong word.

who really cares?

apparently everybody!!

Search for certainty destroys sense of proportion.

-Robert Hunter

[acududeman]

I must come clean > I know I have been harsh...I AM going Sunday and will reserve complete judgment until then....I am a tough GD music critic..just am.....I like the GD's body of music to sound like the GD, that's all...if it doesn't, I don't go....obviously to each his own....

I thought JK ( dreamed, I guess ) would come in and lead the way, pave the way, what have you...so far, not so much but I am still hopeful that this may change. Lets face it, the lead guitar player in any GD band is what drives it for me...that doesn't mean the others shouldn't pull their weight or are not important because they are ( DSO proves that night in and night out ) ...The ONLY reason I am going to see Furthur is because of JK, period....BTW, would you have continued to go see the GD if Jerry wasn't in the band? I have tried over and over to go see all of the OTHER bands and it has been a disaster, at least for me... ( except DSO - which includes anyone they put on lead guitar )

I know of several folks ( you know who you are ) that were in Oakland and have decided that they are done with Furthur....Why, well Wednesday night may have something to do with it? JK is the reason for this Furthur thing and if he is not, then why hire the guy? Thats all....

Matt, you are right buddy....my panties are in a tight bunch :-) love your input you crazy bastard..,....BTW, I love you all regardless of your thoughts...we all deserve to have our own thoughts..some may provoke others and If mine have just remember, who really cares?

I concur with your thoughts.

I'll check out Furthur in Feb when they pass through NoVA. My expectations are pretty low, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Looking forward to the DSO New Years Run. I suspect that I'll walk away from that experience grinning ear to ear......always have

[Dstone5553]

Of course back in the day, we all complained from time to time about how rigid the structure could be!

We did, especially with Weir cause his repertoire was a lot smaller than Garcia's--and it's not like he didn't cut off Garica plenty of times either and it drove everyone nuts.

However, (to me) it didn't seem to bother Jerry that much--go figure.

But back to the subject at hand--even though we may have griped, it made the rare moments like a Comes a Time or a Duprees or a To Lay Me Down that much more special.

Or a Satisfaction or Gloria or BT wind breakout....don't want to leave Weir out here.

Or a Box breakout or Broken Arrow Debut....

[Dstone5553]

I believe that a show is about a show as a whole and not just a set closer. That being a little naive imho. You can't just disregard the earlier stuff because you like how it ended. No balance or flow through out the entire show. I obviously do understand your point but i think you need to reexamine how you judge a show. It's not about the first set. Its not about the first set. It's about the first note to the ending encore.

I really feel I should make a better and more genuine attempt at answering this post of yours Sound...so anyone else reading this, unless you want to be bored out of your freaking mind, I would strongly suggest not reading any furthur.

So...I answered you a little tongue in cheek the other day when I said I absolutely could judge a show based on just the last 4 songs--I assumed that implicitly everyone would know that I didn't really believe this but I should have been more explicit in answering your question, since you haven't been around here long enough to know any implicit regarding my posts. I think I just answered your post based on the emotion I was feeling at how Weir ended that show. While I was VERY impressed by that, of course I DO absolutely agree with you that a show has to be judged as a whole, from the first song to the encore.

For example, 10/12/84 Augusta is one of the great shows of that decade partly because of the majestic way it closes with that famous post space and that Dew, but we judge the whole show as great because of the things that also came before that--like one of the great Strangers ever and that incredible Cumberland and MNS, as well as that Cold Rain opener and the solid predrums--there isn't really a weakness in the show and that's why it's one of the greats of the 80s (not that it's perfect because this is not 1977). Same thing for the just as famous 6/20/83--that not-of-this-world post space with that Rat and the lightning with Phil's bass, and arguably the best Suger Mag of the decade is extremely special, but if not for what came before that--the Minglewood, TLEO and that incredible Rooster and equally incredible Music with a pre-drums that is just flat out monstrous --that show would not be thought of as one of the best of the decade. And I could go on and on.

Only a very narrow minded head would judge a show to be great by only looking at the last 4 songs and while I believe that's obvious, I should have made that clear to you because there was no way for you to know that--I've done this before with a new visitor recently. What I should not have done is just dismiss your reply with my sarcasm which probably a lot of people, including you, didn't pick up as sarcasm.

FYI..I have listened to some of this show in question and I do think the Satisfaction through the Sugar is fantastic, although they seemed to peter out for the SSDD and Johnny which was a shame. I also thought there were other great things about the show although even these highlights have rough spots that any new band is going to have. For example, the J Straw has the Straw solo that everyone and their dog knows is going to climax with the band singing "Jack Straw from Wichita!" but instead, Weir slows everything down and takes some time to get everyone on the same page while building it up again, and then that solo leads into the chorus. So in essence, we get two JK solos instead of one, which is a good thing but it still comes off as a little awkward. The Mobile was an embarrassing effort for Weir and I'm sure for the crowd to have to see and of course the other stuff like the UJB et al which I've already talked about in my previous posts.

In other words, of course this is not a great show--it's a show with, in my mind, a great ending and I should have made that clear. I did get a little carried away when I saw a Satisfaction>Let it Grow>Sugar Mag Johnny B Goode, just imagining what that would be with Bob and Phil at the top of their game and giving John enough room to shine. Therefore, my posts were screaming "I don't care what they did or didn't do in this show--did you see the way it ended?--that's all that matters here!" That was said slightly tongue in cheek and with a little truth too, because of never having never seen Weir do that kind of thing in any of the lists in his post Garcia universe.

So, I just felt I owed you more genuine explanation to your response--which, I actually agree 100% with.

Hope that clears things up.

[sonomajon]

Just wanted to chime in and say that the 10-12-84 David is referring to is one of the finest shows you'll ever hear...David I love your devotion to this body of music! Happy Holidays!...Jon

[found]

HAHAHAHA, thanks a lot for clearing that up, I really appreciate it. There needs to be a standard sarcasm font. I hope you didn't think i have any hard feelings towards you, i try to respect everyone's opinion (and i definitely learned something from this thread.) You seemed pretty adamant about your feelings and thoughts so I just let it be. Anyways, i'll be sure to tread more lightly next time.

Why's everybody always picking on me???

[dancinfool]

Reserving judgment here until Asbury. After watching some clips and hearing some streams I have formed notions regarding the Jekyll/Hyde nature of this beast, but I'm trying to remain open...

and now?

[Guest ignatz]

Furthur will never reach it's potential unless Phil and Bob stop thinking of themselves as being more important members of this band than the other four. They aren't. They are just damn lucky to have JK, Jeff, Joe, and Jay willing to act as their underlings. The ridiculous vocal choices tonight show the immense egos of these two. Unfortunately, I kind of doubt that they are capable of adjusting this kind of thinking.

Sorry, but this is how I see it.

neutrino,you are 100 percent correct.I don't see furthur ever reaching their full potential. weir and lesh will never check their ego's at the door of the venue!!I can't believe that 2 of the founding members of the grateful dead would act like children and be so petty about letting jk "set the place on fire"vocally and musically........If bobby and phil were really concerned about paying tribute to jerry's songs..they would want the songs to sound "just exactly perfect"they are just butchering jerry's songs....