Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 You clearly have been putting something in your pipe and smoking it.....And there was a second shot coming from the grassy knoll when Kennedy was shot..... That is ridiculous.....But indeed you are entitled to your opinion.. I don't think this is as far fetched as you might think...Phil is no phool...and I would venture furthur to guess....that despite JK's statement as to not being able to carry on with both bands there was probably some serious pressure if not a flat out contractual agreement that forced his hand... speculation on my part...but based upon some real life experience in the community... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP found Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 That's my point! I have blinders on and the way they closed the show would have made me forget in a heartbeat the birdsong and ujb and wheel. That is my ENTIRE point. I believe that a show is about a show as a whole and not just a set closer. That being a little naive imho. You can't just disregard the earlier stuff because you like how it ended. No balance or flow through out the entire show. I obviously do understand your point but i think you need to reexamine how you judge a show. It's not about the first set. Its not about the first set. It's about the first note to the ending encore. And i'm not here to tell you what you should and shouldn't think, but your definitely not seeing the big picture. edit: sorry if m opinion offends you, it certainly wasn't meant to. I think you are a smart individual and raise some great points but you could be a better critical listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I believe that a show is about a show as a whole and not just a set closer. That being a little naive imho. You can't just disregard the earlier stuff because you like how it ended. Sure I can. Absolutely I can. Especially when it was something like last night. And you are the first person in my life to suggest i become a better critical listener. The only thing I've been told thus far is that i am too critical a listener. So thanks for that. I am not offended by any opinion of this. I'm just surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP found Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 HAHAHAHA, whatever floats your boat. Different strokes for different folks. I'm surprised being a uber critical listener you just disregard everything else without even listening to it. http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-01-0...7204.sbeok.shnf That must be your favorite show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP bs69 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 My guess is that you can expect the unexpected with this group. A lot of the old rules don't apply to this group and that makes some people feel uncomfortable. I have enjoyed what I have listened to so far and think it will only get better. I have not yet had a chance to listen to last night, but my guess is that Bobby got on a roll and everyone else just followed along. I bet it was great and allowed JK to just play and go with the flow. The ballads will have to come out at some point and I am sure it will be great. If I had tickets for upcoming shows that anticipation would be killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP found Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 By the way, its not about the destination, its how you get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 HAHAHAHA, whatever floats your boat. Different strokes for different folks. I'm surprised being a uber critical listener you just disregard everything else without even listening to it.http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-01-0...7204.sbeok.shnf That must be your favorite show. You're not getting my point at all. Not sure if you are just not sophisticated enough or are just being lame. Maybe you haven't read my posts on this or maybe you just are not retaining the information. Either way...have a great day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeyedbert Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I too went to Oakland and was upset by the first set. I was expecting more. Musically it sounded great but why wasn't John singing? The second set started with lost sailor/saint and I forgot about who sings what. I think this is one of Dstones point. A good Bobby song is still a good Bobby song. You can be mad that John ain't singing Jerry tunes but you should probably enjoy this hot Bobby song with John ripping that guitar. It also helped that the next 3 songs were Althea, Scarlet-Fire, all sung by John. This is when I thought, it doesn't matter what he does and does not sing as long as I get some more of that. Thats how I felt until he got pretty much shut out on night 3 of Oakland. I left that night pretty pissy. But through time and listening back to the shows I realized it was different but it still rocked. I'm going to some furthur winter tour dates. I know what to expect this time. I won't be happy with a Bobby sugaree but I will rock those solos out, because I know John will. Its not ideal. I totally understand the complaints. I think if you go expecting John to sing every Jerry tune you are going to be upset. I was. You can lower your expectations and be pleasently surprised though. Furthur still brings it. Listen to that Althea from Oakland night one and tell me different. I feel I have more to say but this is already long enough. That is all for now. I expect to be yelled at for telling you people to lower your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum VIP Dr. Vapor Posted December 10, 2009 Forum VIP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Bix, Luv you buddy.....Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinMan Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 How do you know he wasn't stomping his feet, doing his hand gestures ("my name will be in lights saying Johnny B Goode tonight!") and playing like is was 1988? becuase he physically can't do it anymore david, he is too old to do that, so please stop pretending that he can, it is an impossibility his legs aren't there, his vocal chords aren't there - there is no debating that. so stop fooling yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I totally understand the complaints. I think if you go expecting John to sing every Jerry tune you are going to be upset. I was. You can lower your expectations and be pleasently surprised though. Furthur still brings it. Listen to that Althea from Oakland night one and tell me different. You basically captured the point I was trying to make but you did it in a few sentences whereas I took a few pages. If anyone goes into a show with the expectations we all had going into Oakland, they are going to be upset. I guess we are trying to help people not make the same mistakes we made. It's about lowering expectations and it's about the reality of the situation and that reality is that John isn't going to get a whole bunch of songs to sing. I am still hoping for some of those really important ballads but I'm not hoping to the point where I will be shocked if Bob sings Morning Dew--even though I admit I will be a little pissed, I just won't be able to help that. How do you know he wasn't stomping his feet, doing his hand gestures ("my name will be in lights saying Johnny B Goode tonight!") and playing like is was 1988?becuase he physically can't do it anymore david, he is too old to do that, so please stop pretending that he can, it is an impossibility his legs aren't there, his vocal chords aren't there - there is no debating that. so stop fooling yourself. I've seen him do it Paul. Not often but just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP chuckvegas Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Reserving judgment here until Asbury. After watching some clips and hearing some streams I have formed notions regarding the Jekyll/Hyde nature of this beast, but I'm trying to remain open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Reserving judgment here until Asbury. After watching some clips and hearing some streams I have formed notions regarding the Jekyll/Hyde nature of this beast, but I'm trying to remain open... Listen for yourselves: http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2009...210.psp3.flac16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 that Deal is wailing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 that Deal is wailing... Seriously...I think Jeff is as good as Hornsby for crying out loud...and I think Bruce is the best! I mean for folks that want to complain...this rendition is worth the price of admission...nice recording..JK up in the mix and wailing! What does bother me is when they split verses in half as they do in 1/2 step...just sing the whole fuckin verse...it'll be easier on you Bobby...trust me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yes, listening to Crazy Fingers right now and it is just beautiful... John is pouring out... love what Phil does on this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP John A Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 ...the Jekyll/Hyde nature of this beast... I think this sums it up as succinctly as possible. To me though, Furthur is all about Phil, as in (a) how the man can bring it at 70 years old - simply awe inspiring, and ( b ) the Grateful Dead magic that is rekindled in the musical conversion between bass and lead with Phil and John doing their thing. Sadly, I don't know that I could share in David's enthusiasm over the Bobby drenched finale last night, hot as it may have been, with the taste of a Phil/Bobby led UJB fresh on the palate. And this is part and parcel for why I have no plans to see the band for their New Year's shows, despite it happening just over the Golden Gate from my home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Seriously...I think Jeff is as good as Hornsby for crying out loud...and I think Bruce is the best! I mean for folks that want to complain...this rendition is worth the price of admission...nice recording..JK up in the mix and wailing! What does bother me is when they split verses in half as they do in 1/2 step...just sing the whole fuckin verse...it'll be easier on you Bobby...trust me! John doesn't sing the whole deal? I was told wrongly that he did. Can't believe I'm going to move a furthur show above my sacred spindles but I can't wait to hear this show tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subcooler Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm not sure why John was relegated to the back-burner vocally last night. I haven't heard the show, but from what I've read his absence was quite disturbing. How can you play an entire second set without some Jerry vocals? It's beyond me. I hope they bring JK to the front of the stove for Asbury. Maybe it's time he takes a little more control of this band. I think the new blood as a whole needs to do so. I completely understand that FURTHUR is BW/PL's band so to speak, but come on. Give the young guns that were brought in based on their amazing abilities to play this music their fair shake. If BW/PL want this thing to work that's the direction they need to go, IMO. That said, I still can't wait for Sat/Sun. According to the PhilLesh website "Phil Lesh is going Furthur"- I thought that indicated it was his band. From last nights show my impression is that this is just another version of Phil & Friends of course with a generous dose of Ratdog thrown in the mix & equal billing for Bobby. The Birdsong last night was an experience-I can say it was the worst version I've seen @ any post Garcia concert to date! I could go on & comment on the versions presented last night of Miss. 1/2 step , Uncle Phil's Band etc..., but it's just too painful! IMO-unless you were in @ the show,what input can you offer on it? Alot of things look good on paper(ex.-setlist) and catching it on i-clips really don't convey the energy coming from the stage @ all! In any event, I'll use my tickets @ Asbury ,but after that it's doubtful I'll be in the crowd watching JK performing as a session player on Phil's stage! I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade,just expressing my sadness that a band with huge potential is being bogged down by even larger ego(s)! Feel free to encourage me to stay home from Futhur shows, I fully expect it, as speaking your mind seems to be frowned apon lately around here! What ever anyones feelings are on Jeff Mattson as DSO lead guitarist, I can assure you that IMO- DSO with JK or Jeff has hit the stage every show I've seen & all musicians have played @ the highest energy level ,to the fullest of thier ability with out anyone holding back for whatever the reason may be! Disappointed @ the Shore, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think this sums it up as succinctly as possible. To me though, Furthur is all about Phil, as in (a) how the man can bring it at 70 years old - simply awe inspiring, and ( b ) the Grateful Dead magic that is rekindled in the musical conversion between bass and lead with Phil and John doing their thing. Sadly, I don't know that I could share in David's enthusiasm over the Bobby drenched finale last night, hot as it may have been, with the taste of a Phil/Bobby led UJB fresh on the palate. And this is part and parcel for why I have no plans to see the band for their New Year's shows, despite it happening just over the Golden Gate from my home. I would have hoped that the Satisfaction would have snapped me out of what I am pretty sure would have been a funk thanks to the UJB but I assume you are in the majority there John. I'll have to start working on you soon go get you to hit the 30th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 John doesn't sing the whole deal?I was told wrongly that he did. Can't believe I'm going to move a furthur show above my sacred spindles but I can't wait to hear this show tomorrow. I was referring to half step David... JK/ On the day when I was born daddy sat down and cried. I had the mark just as plain as day; which could not be denied. BW... They say that cain caught abel rollin loaded dice; Ace of spades behind his ear and him not thinkin twice. It just wrecks the flow...JK sang all of deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 k...thanks Jon. The thing that's nice about listening to the show tomorrow is that I can skip the 1/2 step, Birdsong, Wheel and UJB. It will undoubtedly make the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subcooler Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I have nothing to say about that Vincent. J Straw in one of the greatest songs in the GD world and to open a second set--it was probably pretty big.I just don't know what to tell you about this buddy. And I'm sorry, everybody, for going on and on and on like this. David, The Jack Straw was very strong even though Bobby sang it, JK guitar work was smokin'-It really gave us hope that the 2nd set would erase the feelings from the prior set! Unfortunately that turned out to be the last of JK's impressive guitar we heard last night, as the whole show turned into a train wreck! I know it's only my opinion, but actually it's one that was shared by many deadheads I talked to last night@ the Hammerstien. The bogus review from Philzone was defianetely the minority opinion of the show. I'm amazed anyone could thing it was better than 12/8 show! I'll end with....Furthur ain't for me as watching JK perform in a diminished capacity is just un-acceptable to this Deadhead! Peace, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted December 10, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 David,The Jack Straw was very strong even though Bobby sang it, JK guitar work was smokin'-It really gave us hope that the 2nd set would erase the feelings from the prior set! Unfortunately that turned out to be the last of JK's impressive guitar we heard last night, as the whole show turned into a train wreck! Really? Well, I'll have to listen to it myself because a good friend of mine who I've been to tons of shows with and whom I trust, told me it was one of best shows he's been to in many a year. Can't wait to hear the Satisfaction>Grow>Sugar and see if I agree with you about the train wreck analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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